College Discussion - View Single Post

soozievt · 03-25-2008, 12:27 AM

Hi Chloe,
I will try to clarify what I meant in my previous post (although NMR did a pretty good job in expressing thoughts that I share and we tend to think similarly). By the way, my member name is Soozie, not Swoozie, but perhaps after a few glasses of wine, maybe it is Swoozie??

First, I feel funny discussing this on a BOCO thread but as discussions go, one thing can lead to another. My previous post was not about BOCO specifically and in fact, was not about BFA programs, but about colleges in GENERAL. For one thing, not only am I a parent who has had a child apply to regular colleges, besides one who applied to BFA in MT ones, I also advise students and their families about ALL types of college admissions and not JUST for musical theater and not JUST BFA admissions. My comments had to do with college admissions generally speaking.

I was commenting about parents who call up the schools that rejected their children to find out (or in some cases, demand) why the school has not taken their child. For a moment, please put aside audition based programs because that was not really my focus in that comment. For one thing, I do not even think it is the parents place to call as this is the child's admissions process, not the parents', even though parents play a major supportive role in this process. Further, for REGULAR colleges at the least, I cannot see the point in asking "why didn't my child get in?" I am not sure what there is to be gained because in most cases, the child got into a college but maybe not the one they wanted. In particular, I find this question even worse in cases of HIGHLY selective college admissions. In those cases, I am not sure a college could even pinpoint to a parent why the kid did not get in because a lot of times, they are rejecting students who DO qualify but they can't take them all given the very low acceptance rates and so there is not a clear cut reason the student got a "no". And how at that point, does it help to even know? How can they field in some cases, 20,000 such calls??? My children both were involved in highly selective admissions processes (add on that my oldest JUST went through in this cycle a highly selective grad admissions process). I can tell you that I felt that both were qualified for every school on their list BUT realistically speaking, I knew and my kids did too, NOT to expect to get into many of them given the very low admit rates and that qualified students will be turned away (again, to very very selective schools or programs that accept at a very low acceptance rate). If they got a rejection, nobody cried or was devastated. Nobody was angry about it. We expected it. We looked at the overall picture in the end (which I am happy to say worked out really positively). I have read CC now for almost six years and I have read many stories (beyond the MT forum....I read the other CC forums as well, not sure some of you do) where parents are truly IRATE when their child is rejected from a school like Yale. I can't imagine that. Mom or Dad then calls the school to complain or ask "why?" So, I related in my previous post about how when visiting a school (this was NOT a MT school at all), how I was told that their adcoms were so busy fielding calls from PARENTS (remember this is the KIDS' process) about why their kids were rejected that they couldn't even run the information session. I also explained how many highly selective schools such as the Ivies and other top colleges, seem to release decisions online at 5 PM or so and now I see why. That was the gist of my comments. I was specifically talking about parents calling to either complain or want explanations of why their child was not admitted to a college. Sorry, but that is one thing I am not into.

Now, you do bring up audition feedback which again, was not really what I was referring to in my previous post. I can understand wanting that, I truly do. Some schools may give it and some may not. That also is a bit different, as NMR mentions. If a STUDENT (not parent) calls up asking for some feedback (NOT "why didn't I get in??") about their audition to help them with subsequent auditions and the school is willing to provide it, I guess that can be a good thing, but not all schools are willing to do that. I do NOT think that is particularly useful at the end of the cycle (such as around NOW) unless, of course, a student is rejected everywhere and wants feedback and is considering trying again the following year. The one time I think that could be useful is if a student is rejected early in the season with a lot of auditions still to come and can get a school to give some constructive feedback about the audition. In fact, in 2005, when my own child auditioned for BFA in MT programs, I had not thought of doing that. However, about half way through her auditions, she heard from one of her earlier ones with a rejection and another mom who I had met at the audition at that school (who as it turned out, had a D who had gone to the same summer program as my D but they didn't know one another) shared with me that the adcom for the program was very willing to give the student feedback about the audition and that they had called and gotten that. I never thought to do that but asked my D if she wanted to and she did and so she called up this lovely person who we had met in a private meeting on a visit, and asked for feedback about her audition and was grateful for it. That was the only time she did that because of what this other person said about this school and that they do this there. Actually, she didn't have other rejections during the season but I don't think she would have called any others anyway because she only did because of hearing that this was something they do at that particular program. Also, a rejection in late March is not going to yield constructive feedback that she needed for subsequent auditions. So, audition feedback in the first half of audition season is nice if you can get it and still apply it to auditions still to come. I don't think it is necessary to bother schools about that at this time of year, unless one has no acceptances and will be going through the process again in the future. I don't need to know why certain schools said no at the end of the cycle if my child is holding some acceptances. Not all schools can accept them given the odds and so it just goes with this territory.

So, I hope that clarifies that I can see it being beneficial for an applicant (not a parent) to get feedback on their audition, but I am not sure many schools could handle that but if they are willing, that is cool, particularly if there are still college auditions to come for the candidate. But a parent calling a college, ANY college, not just BFA or audition schools, after a rejection to find out why their child wasn't accepted....I am not into. I could see a guidance counselor calling about a student to ascertain any information that may be helpful down the line with students still to come from that HS.

03-25-2008, 12:27 AM	#37
soozievt CC College Counselor/Musical Theater Counselor Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 11,922	Clarifying my post for Chloe Hi Chloe, I will try to clarify what I meant in my previous post (although NMR did a pretty good job in expressing thoughts that I share and we tend to think similarly). By the way, my member name is Soozie, not Swoozie, but perhaps after a few glasses of wine, maybe it is Swoozie?? First, I feel funny discussing this on a BOCO thread but as discussions go, one thing can lead to another. My previous post was not about BOCO specifically and in fact, was not about BFA programs, but about colleges in GENERAL. For one thing, not only am I a parent who has had a child apply to regular colleges, besides one who applied to BFA in MT ones, I also advise students and their families about ALL types of college admissions and not JUST for musical theater and not JUST BFA admissions. My comments had to do with college admissions generally speaking. I was commenting about parents who call up the schools that rejected their children to find out (or in some cases, demand) why the school has not taken their child. For a moment, please put aside audition based programs because that was not really my focus in that comment. For one thing, I do not even think it is the parents place to call as this is the child's admissions process, not the parents', even though parents play a major supportive role in this process. Further, for REGULAR colleges at the least, I cannot see the point in asking "why didn't my child get in?" I am not sure what there is to be gained because in most cases, the child got into a college but maybe not the one they wanted. In particular, I find this question even worse in cases of HIGHLY selective college admissions. In those cases, I am not sure a college could even pinpoint to a parent why the kid did not get in because a lot of times, they are rejecting students who DO qualify but they can't take them all given the very low acceptance rates and so there is not a clear cut reason the student got a "no". And how at that point, does it help to even know? How can they field in some cases, 20,000 such calls??? My children both were involved in highly selective admissions processes (add on that my oldest JUST went through in this cycle a highly selective grad admissions process). I can tell you that I felt that both were qualified for every school on their list BUT realistically speaking, I knew and my kids did too, NOT to expect to get into many of them given the very low admit rates and that qualified students will be turned away (again, to very very selective schools or programs that accept at a very low acceptance rate). If they got a rejection, nobody cried or was devastated. Nobody was angry about it. We expected it. We looked at the overall picture in the end (which I am happy to say worked out really positively). I have read CC now for almost six years and I have read many stories (beyond the MT forum....I read the other CC forums as well, not sure some of you do) where parents are truly IRATE when their child is rejected from a school like Yale. I can't imagine that. Mom or Dad then calls the school to complain or ask "why?" So, I related in my previous post about how when visiting a school (this was NOT a MT school at all), how I was told that their adcoms were so busy fielding calls from PARENTS (remember this is the KIDS' process) about why their kids were rejected that they couldn't even run the information session. I also explained how many highly selective schools such as the Ivies and other top colleges, seem to release decisions online at 5 PM or so and now I see why. That was the gist of my comments. I was specifically talking about parents calling to either complain or want explanations of why their child was not admitted to a college. Sorry, but that is one thing I am not into. Now, you do bring up audition feedback which again, was not really what I was referring to in my previous post. I can understand wanting that, I truly do. Some schools may give it and some may not. That also is a bit different, as NMR mentions. If a STUDENT (not parent) calls up asking for some feedback (NOT "why didn't I get in??") about their audition to help them with subsequent auditions and the school is willing to provide it, I guess that can be a good thing, but not all schools are willing to do that. I do NOT think that is particularly useful at the end of the cycle (such as around NOW) unless, of course, a student is rejected everywhere and wants feedback and is considering trying again the following year. The one time I think that could be useful is if a student is rejected early in the season with a lot of auditions still to come and can get a school to give some constructive feedback about the audition. In fact, in 2005, when my own child auditioned for BFA in MT programs, I had not thought of doing that. However, about half way through her auditions, she heard from one of her earlier ones with a rejection and another mom who I had met at the audition at that school (who as it turned out, had a D who had gone to the same summer program as my D but they didn't know one another) shared with me that the adcom for the program was very willing to give the student feedback about the audition and that they had called and gotten that. I never thought to do that but asked my D if she wanted to and she did and so she called up this lovely person who we had met in a private meeting on a visit, and asked for feedback about her audition and was grateful for it. That was the only time she did that because of what this other person said about this school and that they do this there. Actually, she didn't have other rejections during the season but I don't think she would have called any others anyway because she only did because of hearing that this was something they do at that particular program. Also, a rejection in late March is not going to yield constructive feedback that she needed for subsequent auditions. So, audition feedback in the first half of audition season is nice if you can get it and still apply it to auditions still to come. I don't think it is necessary to bother schools about that at this time of year, unless one has no acceptances and will be going through the process again in the future. I don't need to know why certain schools said no at the end of the cycle if my child is holding some acceptances. Not all schools can accept them given the odds and so it just goes with this territory. So, I hope that clarifies that I can see it being beneficial for an applicant (not a parent) to get feedback on their audition, but I am not sure many schools could handle that but if they are willing, that is cool, particularly if there are still college auditions to come for the candidate. But a parent calling a college, ANY college, not just BFA or audition schools, after a rejection to find out why their child wasn't accepted....I am not into. I could see a guidance counselor calling about a student to ascertain any information that may be helpful down the line with students still to come from that HS.