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Originally Posted by nodramamama Unfortunately, the xenophobia expressed by some in this forum is also too familiar, though perhaps a little surprising in a forum dedicated to higher education! |
Hear, hear ...
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Originally Posted by zoosermom It should be coming from their own governments so they can stay in their own homes, which is what many want. When you grow up you will understand. |
So it's a cultural, not an economic issue? Why then shouldn't we in the meanwhile let each person make his choice, since in the long run we get the economic benefit?
Economically speaking, the vast majority don't bring economic liabilities with them, so what difference is there economically between an individual raised in the US as an undocumented citizen and being born into the US? It's no more than if 5% of Americans suddenly decided to have extra children. I bet we should start taxing couples if they decide to have more than 2.1 children.
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Originally Posted by FLVADAD You don't have to like the law, but it is to be respected. Just because you feel it is unjust is not a valid reason to wantonly ignore it or break it. |
Thanks for totally evading my question. I asked you --
So according to your view, unjust laws must ALWAYS be obeyed, ALL the time, no matter what they are, no matter what lives are concerned, no matter if millions of people are involved, until the laws are formally changed?
Please answer.
I am drawing a distinction between the Law of the social contract, and the law as it may be written on paper, which often lags behind that consensus of society which forms social contract Law. That is why Rousseau wished to particularly encourage more participatory and more direct forms of democracy as representative democracy often allows greater disparities between a government and the consensus of the social contractants.
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They do not simply ignore the law and do whatever they please because they don't personally agree. In my view, it is impossible for illegals to justify having citizen's rights based a moral high ground when they simultaneously disregard and disrespect basic laws and due process.
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Huh....
They haven't broken due process. They broke a law that would be unjust and irrational under a Lockean-Rousseaunian social contract. By the very definition of just governance, the right to self-rule and self-determination, that law should not even have jurisdiction in the first place. Thus by this definition such undocumented individuals are *not* breaking the rule of law especially if they have been constructive and orderly contributors to society!
For those who say that perfectly orderly individuals are being unlawful and wantonly disrespectful of due process because they initially got here by undocumented means, I might as well extend the logic and say that anyone whose birth was never documented legally aren't individuals .... so they deserve no human rights. I mean, if a repressive genocidal government in Africa refuses to grant babies of a certain race birth certs, technically the genocidal government can get away with butchering them because they are legally not humans amirite???
"You downright dirty evil scumbag criminal .... you broke the law when you couldn't even walk!"