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"Uh, it seems to me that the major difference is quite obvious - and in fact is consonant with the libertarian philosophy that you yourself espoused. Specifically, you don't have to take AP Calculus if you want to end up as a college English major, even at a prestige college. I agree with you that many do, but you don't have to. Similarly, the future scientist doesn't have to take AP history or English. It's free choice. "
Well, then, how about this? Perhaps "elite" institutions should start granting AP credit in the humanities. Problem solved.
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And you think they don't? Seems to me that most offer some sort of method to get some sort of credit or advanced standing for AP humanities (especially for foreign languages).
http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~fdo/publ...edstanding0607
/general.htm#3
http://www.yale.edu/yalecollege/publ.../criteria.html http://registrar.stanford.edu/pdf/AP_Chart_2007-08.pdf http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pub/ap/table.htm Quote:
Well, the problem here is that we're not speaking of the bottom 90 or so percent of kids. We're talking (at least I'm talking) about kids at MIT and Caltech, who are probably all 99th percentile or higher (with some obvious exceptions) in terms of intelligence in relation to the American populace. And these students should be able to move beyond the failure of their school system.
I talked to a person in 9th grade who changed my entire way of thinking. I wanted to learn physics but I kept saying that my school was awful at physics and that even if they let me take a course (which they wouldn't allow until 11th grade), it would be useless and I wouldn't learn anything. This person's response was simple: "If you want to learn physics, learn it by yourself. You can't blame the failure of your school system for your own failure. Your education is your own responsibility." And it's absolutely true. If they're smart enough to get into MIT, then they should be smart enough to educate themselves in general logic, writing, whatever. Period.
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But that statement is not relevant to the discussion. Keep in mind the backdrop of our discussion. You stated that it is silly for US universities to enact breadth requirements, when European universities don't. The response to that is that European universities don't enact breadth requirements because they don't
need to, as the admittedly better European high school systems do it for them by forcing everybody to demonstrate broad knowledge before they can even graduate. Your response to that was that US high schools also attempt to enact breadth requirements through a required sequence of courses. And then
my response is that those 'requirements' are basically so loose as to not even really exist, because like I said, you don't exactly have to be a genius to pass, or even to do well, in most US high school classes.
Hence, this US high school 'breadth requirement' isn't a true requirement in any practical sense. I've known Americans who have taken 4 years of high school history who, frankly, know practically nothing about history. Like I said, US high schools do not enforce high standards. So we are left with the situation that was stated before - that US colleges have to pick up the pieces.
Your foray into the notion that people can choose to learn subjects is therefore irrelevant. Sure, they
can choose to learn it. But the question is not what people can choose to learn on their own time. The question is, what do the high schools systems
require students to learn? When you're talking about US high schools, the answer is 'not much'. That's why foreigners come flocking to US colleges, but they don't exactly come flocking to US high schools.
And besides, like I said before, of course people can choose to educate themselves on a wide range of subjects. But what if they just choose not to? That's a segue to the next topic...
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Actually, I think the problem is more profound than that. Give undergrads free choice, and you know what's going to happen - a lot of them are just going to choose the easiest possible classes and/or classes on things that they already know well, just so they can get a bunch of easy A's. I know people who were completely fluent in a particular language who took all of the intro courses in that language anyway, just to get a string of A's."
This is where the admissions process comes in handy. You don't let people who do such things into "elite" schools. Period. It's the admission team's responsibility to handle these problems. There are tons of Chinese people here who just take Chinese I and II, get As since they're already fluent, take the SAT II Chinese and get an 800, and this somehow looks impressive to colleges. I know people like that who got into MIT, actually, sadly enough. In addition, I see some of the most passionate people denied.
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lFirst off, I'm not even sure that it these 'GPA-gunners' are really doing a bad thing. The truth is that
much of the world is superficial. The problem is therefore not with these particular students, but with the world at large. For example, I think it is now widely understood that if you want to maximize your chance of getting into law school or med school, you basically have to 'protect' your undergraduate GPA. Like it or not, that's the "game" of law/med-school admissions. If you don't have a stellar GPA, the top law/med-schools won't care why, all they'll see is that you don't have a stellar GPA. Similarly, there are a lot of employers out there who won't even interview you if you don't meet a certain GPA cutoff (usually a 3.0/4). Many of the major international competitions like the Rhodes Scholarship and Marshall Scholarship also weight GPA heavily.
Like it or not, this is the world that we live in. Hence, somebody who has shown that he knows how to protect his GPA in high school is probably also going to know how to protect his GPA in college, and will therefore go on to a have a successful career. It may not sound particularly noble, but that's the reality of the world we live in. Every school, MIT included, would like its alumni to be successful in whatever pursuits they choose. But, whether we like it or not, we live in a world where success is often times dictated by how well you can play the GPA game.