gradee

obscuredfacts- you're right, many times, the ones volunteering abroad do happen to come from wealthy families... but so what? Is a wealthy person volunteering abroad inherently bad?

Furthermore, why do you care about the intrinsic motivations of someone volunteering abroad? Are most people's motives for volunteering in general completely altruistic? Do they have to be? Why can't we help others AND see the world AND derive some sort of personal benefit that isn't at the expense of the people we are helping (i.e. self-awareness, tolerance, maturity, etc)?

And what's the issue with first class flights or stopping off at another destination while volunteering abroad? Is there some mandate that states you must fly coach and you must only visit the destination country you are volunteering at? I think the argument you're trying to make is the money that a person spent on those luxuries while going abroad could have been donated to people in need. But that is a fallacious argument- using that same train of logic, you could reason that any excess income beyond supporting a basic standard of living should be donated to those who need it more. Doesn't sound like the kind of society I want to live in. I want to be free to spend my money as I please.

Yes, there is plenty of need here. There's plenty of need everywhere. But I am free to decide who I want to help and who I don't want to help. Sorry, but I don't feel that a neighbor's house whose paint is peeling to to be as compelling of a need as an HIV/AIDS orphan in Africa. But, I recognize that I may measure "need" differently than others. Some may believe that a need that is more immediate in terms of location to be a more pressing need. You, obscuredfacts, most likely fall into this category. It's not necessarily wrong, just different. And that's ok.

And how do you define community anyways? Is the definition limited to one's neighborhood, city, state, country? I'll argue that with globalization (my favorite word BTW) and an increasingly connected planet, the entire world is one big community. Or should my life experiences be limited to a 5-mile radius of my house?

Sue22

Gradee-
I have to agree with obscsuredfacts. The problem with these deluxe "service" trips is that they are usually more about fulfilling the needs of the rich high schooler than about the needs of the recipient. I don't have any problem if you want to jet off to Africa and spend thousands of dollars to teach English to orphans for a couple of weeks and then head off for a fancy safari. Just don't expect me to applaud you for doing so.

This summer my son did a scuba diving program in the South Pacific. As part of the trip they did a couple of days of carefully orchestrated service work. It didn't hurt anyone, and I'm always in favor of honest work, but to tell the truth they could each have hired a local to do the work in exchange for the money the teens spent on sodas and snacks at the end of the day. I can just envision the admissions eye rolling when some poor kid writes his college essay on his life changing experience painting a school in Fiji. What, we don't have schools with peeling paint here?

My son has learned a whole lot more about the world by volunteering for the last few years at the food pantry in our wealthy town. Working there hasn't cost him a thing other than time. It's opened his eyes to hidden poverty and the struggles people are experiencing in our own back yard.

gradee

Sue22- I would suggest you go back and reread post #1010 (the post obscuredfacts responded to). For you convenience, I will repost the relevant pieces of information:

"I've always been super impressed by applicants who've taken the time to volunteer abroad and made a real, demonstrable impact overseas."

There's an AND in my statement that you and obscuredfacts missed. From what you wrote, your son didn't make a real, demonstrable impact. As such, I' wouldn't expect anyone to be impressed by it and I certainly wouldn't advocate for that kind of placement.

Also, I don't think you can use your son's scuba diving trip to Fiji, which is an island resort and one of the most economically developed countries in the South Pacific as an argument against volunteering abroad. Of course that doesn't compare to volunteering for years in a food pantry. I never said short-term, unimpactful volunteering abroad trips were substitutes for long-term volunteering commitments at home. In fact, I clearly state in post #1010: "A one-off volunteer abroad trip with no other supporting activities that doesn't tie into your overall story probably won't do much for you (in my opinion at least)."

I also never once mentioned anything about deluxe service trips. I'm talking about real volunteer trips abroad where volunteers do real work, not a scuba diving program in an island paradise. Furthermore, I highly doubt adcoms would view spending a few days painting a school here in the States to be any more impressive. Speaking of which, couldn't we also hire locals here in the States to paint schools (as you recommend doing overseas)... perhaps people in need such as the very people who have been frequenting your wealthy town's food pantry?

Sue22

Gradee, I'd agree that the critical element is the impact the volunteer makes. I have seen cases where kids have had a real, demonstrable impact. It's just that I've seen so few of them while I've seen very many pleasure trips masquerading as service. In many cases these trips are being sold to unsuspecting families as a way to bulk up their kids' college resumes. Admissions officers are too savvy to be taken in by these fluffy service opportunities.

"There's an AND in my statement that you and obscuredfacts missed. From what you wrote, your son didn't make a real, demonstrable impact. As such, I' wouldn't expect anyone to be impressed by it and I certainly wouldn't advocate for that kind of placement."

I was responding largely to post #2021 in which you defend first class flights, side trips and stays in 4 star hotels as an adjunct to service trips. I guess this is one of my pet peeves. Kids spending thousands of dollars to do hundreds of dollars of work. I think travel abroad is fabulous. What I don't like is this conflation of pleasure and service trips, with the trips being marketed as selfless giving or life-altering learning.

"I've always been super impressed by applicants who've taken the time to volunteer abroad and made a real, demonstrable impact overseas."

Again, my question would be why you're more impressed by volunteering abroad than at home.
Wealthy kids are likely to have traveled overseas on pleasure trips, so for them to take a service trip is not necessarily going to be much of a stretch. It would be for a kid who has never had the opportunity to travel more than 100 mile from their small town. But there again, it's about the student, not necessarily about providing service to the target population.

"Couldn't we also hire locals here in the States to paint schools (as you recommend doing overseas)... perhaps people in need such as the very people who have been frequenting your wealthy town's food pantry?"

Sure, we could hire local people...if your kid happened to have $500 to shill out for a union painter for the day. Or she could pick up a paint brush herself on a Saturday morning, join a bunch of other volunteers and still be home in time to do driver's ed.

The reason people in my town are in need of a food pantry is because they are predominantly elderly, disabled or working single parents with multiple small children. They do not have a union card, necessary in my state if you want to do paid maintenance work in a school.

In case you think I don't know what I'm talking about, I run a small non-profit providing services to villages in a poor area of a foreign country. We have been approached by high school groups wanting to use us for service trips. After careful study and consultation with other non-profits we decided it was far too expensive to fly kids in and train them, and that without extensive training they would be largely ineffective. My kids have worked with our organization, but we did a tremendous amount of thinking about how they could provide services that couldn't be done by local volunteers or inexpensive paid labor. Much of the work they do for the organization happens here in the states.

I guess my bottom line is a caveat to parents. Don't expect service abroad to wow admissions officers unless, as gradee says (yes, I give you credit here gradee :-)) your child makes "a real, demonstrable impact". This is much harder said than done. In most cases it's easier to achieve results, and substantially more cost effective, closer to home.

gradee

"Gradee, I'd agree that the critical element is the impact the volunteer makes. I have seen cases where kids have had a real, demonstrable impact. It's just that I've seen so few of them while I've seen very many pleasure trips masquerading as service. In many cases these trips are being sold to unsuspecting families as a way to bulk up their kids' college resumes. Admissions officers are too savvy to be taken in by these fluffy service opportunities."

Caveat emptor- this is true for every day life and is not specific to volunteer abroad packages.

"I was responding largely to post #2021 in which you defend first class flights, side trips and stays in 4 star hotels as an adjunct to service trips. I guess this is one of my pet peeves. Kids spending thousands of dollars to do hundreds of dollars of work. I think travel abroad is fabulous. What I don't like is this conflation of pleasure and service trips, with the trips being marketed as selfless giving or life-altering learning."

I defend first class flights, side trips, and stays in four star hotels because I don't judge how people spend their money. If they want to do these things while volunteering abroad, it's not my business. I never once commented on the marketing of these trips.

"Again, my question would be why you're more impressed by volunteering abroad than at home. Wealthy kids are likely to have traveled overseas on pleasure trips, so for them to take a service trip is not necessarily going to be much of a stretch. It would be for a kid who has never had the opportunity to travel more than 100 mile from their small town. But there again, it's about the student, not necessarily about providing service to the target population."

I never said I was more impressed by kids who volunteer abroad then those who volunteer at home. If you reread post #1010, I simply state that I'm impressed by kids who volunteer abroad and make a real, demonstrable impact and then state why I'm impressed.

I won't repost your next three paragraphs so that I can save space- suffice to say, you are one example out of hundreds if not thousands of international volunteer placements. I don't think your one example in itself can necessarily speak for the entire volunteer abroad industry.

"I guess my bottom line is a caveat to parents. Don't expect service abroad to wow admissions officers unless, as gradee says (yes, I give you credit here gradee :-)) your child makes "a real, demonstrable impact". This is much harder said than done. In most cases it's easier to achieve results, and substantially more cost effective, closer to home."

This is a fair statement and not at odds with my previous posts. But you don't add any new insights- of course doing any activity and not being able to demonstrate impact won't impress anyone. For example, if your son is the president of a school club and failed to demonstrate impact, that wouldn't wow any admissions officers either. Also, demonstrating real, demonstrable impact is hard in general- that's why it is impressive. And of course its more difficult to achieve real, demonstrable impact overseas- you're way outside your comfort zone (if you're doing real volunteering) and dealing with cultural and language barriers the degree of which you probably wouldn't experience at home. That's why I find it especially impressive if you are able demonstrate impact while you abroad.

Sue22

Um, volunteen, your website showed not a single volunteer opportunity for teens within 10 miles of my home. This site listed 45:

http://www.volunteermatch.org/

Use the advanced search to look for jobs appropriate for teens.

Journier

While some high school counselors can be extremely helpful, don't fall into the trap of only doing what the school tells you do do for EC's. Many schools are so focused on making the school look good that they will push students toward group activities that do nothing to demonstrate a student's individual abilities and unique interests. So, if you're in the band and love it, that's great. But, it might be more impressive if you and three other musicians form a high quality jazz group that plays at private parties to help pay for college applications and college visits after acceptance. Highlight your part in establishing the group, marketing it, setting up gigs, handling the finances, selecting numbers, managing practice sessions, getting feedback, and arranging to play at fundraisers for worthy causes for no fee. The fundraiser work counts as community service including ALL the time spent making it happen. Arrange also to play at elementary schools to get kids interested in music, play for a dance for mentally disabled people to help make their night special, get your performances on Youtube so you can include a link in your application, and otherwise help the adcomms envision you bringing color and life to their school if accepted. Would you rather accept another high school trombone band player or a cool jazz band member who knows how to get bands going and make a positive contribution to the community?

BUDgirl

I think this is an important bit of info. It gives people an idea why they should do certain things when applying for college but the basic idea can be used in many more avenues of life.

Your passion in life and how you express yourself about that passion, as well as where it takes you does say a lot about your makeup as a person. It takes what you have written on paper and turns you into a real person. Just as if you were applying for a job, you want to stand out and show that you have passion, drive, and commitment.

I think that maybe the hope is that if young people do a lot of volunteer work and extracurricular stuff that it makes them more rounded people. These activities can open up a persons mind to new possibilities. When exposed to new stuff this way, some of it will stick to a person for life and become something that drives them. People that do have things that drive them in that way become more interesting as individual naturally.

When you train your mind to learn and be open to new possibilities it will make you a valuable member of society because you will always be open to fresh ways of thinking and doing things. That is what we need in society, not just for getting into college.

Draxula

Great post!

slant6

draumo: Since you're a transfer student with a good GPA, a lack of stellar ECs isn't going to hurt you that much. Your experience with your dad sounds like a killer essay topic, and it obviously directly connects to your scholastic interests. Go for it.

theqazqaz

Is this advice by the original poster applicable in the personal statement now that their is a separate essay for one's dominant EC? Two essays about the same EC seem to me redundant.

JetAir1

I just want to say this was an excellent post and I wish I had known how to rephrase my many extracurricular activities, when I was applying to college.

nucats1851

DEFINITELY don't do what these visitors to Northwestern did:

Northwestern Tour Guide Video - YouTube

Mamamole

I am always surprised that most people think that extracurriculars are just whatever is offered at school. I know a valedictorian who didn't get into any top schools even though she did everything the school counselor told her to do and the school was large with an IB program and lower ranked students who got into Ivy League schools. She refused to go to the state school that accepted her on half scholarship. I got her connected with some research and talked to her about her "story" and how to present herself. She ended up getting into three top schools and is attending an Ivy on a full ride this coming year. Extracurriculars are very important for top schools.

parkemuth

Class warfare. I think the assumption of many people is that these trips constitute 'poverty tourism' and in some cases that is what they start off to be. But not in many others.

I think to assume because a students' parents have the economic means to support their children's education outside of the traditional classroom is the kind of stereotyping that is injurious.

It makes those who cannot go feel better and discourages people from going. Would you say the same about work in a soup kitchen or a homeless shelter or the aspca? Why not? It's easier and sometimes equally if not more cynical since there is no huge economic investment.

I think, like most things based on sweeping generalizations, we clump thousands of people into one category. We forget each student has a name and a different experience. Assuming the majority, from the outset, are not useful trips and experiences seems unfair. Do you have data to support this or are you just giving an opinion?

Wouldn't it make more sense to say some of these trips end up as a waste and others life transforming? It is not the trip, it is what is in the heart and mind of the student. If a student is open to change and learns to care more about the world, then isn't that good, even if it costs quite a bit?

No matter where you go, there you are. In other words, it is not about where in the world, but why and: Are you teachable?

My daughter just finished a gap year. While doing so she wrote a blog. It was featured as a link to a major research university., a Pulitzer prize winning author commented positively on it. The experience changed her life and improved her writing and interpersonal skills.

Now that she is back she is having problems learning to live again in a society in which superficial conspicuous consumption is the order of the day, rich and poor alike.

And yet you encourage people to assume she is spoiled and rich. I disagree. It was coming back that has led her to see this all around her in this country.She finds it appalling that many of the 'smart' (if by this you and others mean high SAT and grades)students' she will live with next year know next to nothing about the outside world.

They get the wrong continent when she tells them about some of the places she was in. Should she assume that everyone is the US is so ignorant? No, she tries to give each person a chance, but it has been a sad education coming back when so few care anything about global politics and human rights except as a way of sliding into a selective school.

And yet it seems that according to the common wisdom, her trip would be just another rich kid jetting off. I wonder if we would make the same kinds of sweeping statements about all other forms of activity?