junie_bug

Hello, i'm a senior going to an international school
who's trying to decide b/w Amherst and Williams for early decision.
I want to major in international relations, but
I know that both colleges don't offer international relations as major.
However, I saw that Amherst has a 5 college program
and offers an international relations certificate program
I also saw that Williams offers an international studies program...

I won't be able to go to the states and visit colleges
so I need some advice from people who do have experience.
Which college do you think is stronger in the international relations field?

ACKB12

I can't speak too much to Williams, as I didn't look at the school when I applied to colleges. But here's another thing about Amherst:

In addition to the 5 college certificate program, you have the freedom to create your own major at Amherst. It is a bit more complicated than a traditional major -- you are required to write a thesis, for example -- but it certainly is do-able. You can combine up to three departments (like political science, economics and sociology) to create your major. Even better, it can be closer tailored to what, in particular, about international relations interests you. (Internat'l economics, internat'l development, international politics, etc.)

omega007

What are your stats junie_bug?

arcadia

The gang over at Eph Blog seems to think that Amherst is in real financial trouble. You might find this discussion to be of interest:

Amherst: $48 million in budget cuts over 3 years : EphBlog

middsmith

The gang over at Ephblog also think Middlebury is in real financial trouble. ;-)

arcadia

Yeah, but today they're focusing their vitriol on the 'Herst, and the title of this thread isn't Amherst vs. Middlebury.

Modadunn

I don't quite understand the obsession (maybe that is too strong a word) that ephblog has for the comparative analysis between itself and Amherst and/or Middlebury. Seems they are constantly looking over their shoulders instead of looking in the mirror, or ahead. It's like the kid with low self-esteem that seems to only boost themselves up by tearing others down; A habit I've never quite understood.

Now we might all agree that Midd may be undergoing some financial scrimping, but what I find curious, if you will, is that Williams enjoyed a robust 59% in Alumni giving for the fiscal year 08-09 who contributed just over $8.7 million. Alumni Fund 2008-2009 Report | Williams College :: Alumni And granted, this was the final year in a 5 year capital campaign, but Middlebury had 62% participation with alumni giving just over $13 Million. Even allowing for the $1 million bump Middlebury received due to participation numbers and the capital campaign, in a year as financially straining as this one, I think what these numbers say about Middlebury's "alumni satisfaction" is quite positive, which is often what these numbers (both the $ and the %) point to. Caveat: Issue for Midd, however, is that they were looking to raise $500 Million and are still about 200 million short of that.

And to be fair, and just to cover all the bases, Amherst's report says it had participation just over 60% for a total of $9.2 million. https://www.amherst.edu/give/volunte...r_alumni/tools

The point, of course, is that all of these schools enjoy pretty high alumni participation numbers... and all are very competitive in terms of admissions. And each has enough of a tweak that what might make it the dream school for one, makes it second or third choice for someone else.

Now I am sure the ephblog will have lots of opinion and pontificating on this post if they dare to read it. And I willingly admit I could be missing something completely, but even without the numerical comparative, it begs the question of why Williams likes to point out how others are floundering instead of pointing out how they flourish?

kwu

Everyone is in major financial trouble.

junie_bug, look at Georgetown University's Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service, Harvard University, and Princeton University's Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs.

mythmom

Wow. When I went to the info session at Amherst all the top admissions person could talk about was Williams, even to the point of jokingly threatening to give bad directions to Williams.

Amherst was not mentioned at the Williams info session.

I'm sure this was an anomaly, and on a different day the opposite could be true.

But I think the rivalry goes both ways and is fairly innocuous. One year the Amherst football team stole the Williams teams jerseys. A funny prank in my opinion.

One year Amherst cut a big "A" on Williams football field. The Williams folks cut a B+ on Amherst's, a witty response.

Ephblog maybe be blowhards. Not arguing that, but I can guarantee that my Williams student doesn't read Ephblog or harbor resentment of either Midd or Amherst.

And he chose Williams over Amherst or Middlebury for its music and art departments, for the purple valley and the mountains right here, and for the general ambiance.

He's been very happy there.

I'm sure he would have been happy at Amherst or Midd as well. The schools are practically triplets.

Modadunn

^^ exactly my point. And while I personally didn't hear Williams mentioned by Amherst rep or Amherst mentioned by Williams' rep, I was primarily referring to Ephblog in my post. Throw a little Swarthmore in there, too.

I actually enjoy a nice rivalry. I find it healthy in a good kind of way, and from all those I know who have graduated from Williams and Amherst, nether holds ill will against the other.

Perhaps KWU is right, but "major financial trouble" could be a relative term and too, we've seen some solid rebounding with the market over the last few weeks... some schools will breathe a little easier and deeper and some will still be needing to chip and chop away, unable to let go or slow down their panic modes.

As in all things, only time well tell.

WilliamsProf

Please don't confuse ephblog with Williams. Williams professors, at least, either despise or ignore ephblog. Ephblog has no official connection whatsoever to Williams College.

Modadunn

Good to know, Prof!

As to the OP... I would agree that just going to a school for its name when it doesn't have an extensive program in what you'd love to study is risky. I made that mistake and ended up transferring. Then again, I didn't really know what I wanted to do when I started, so it's best to kind of review a bunch of departments where you MIGHT find interest as well. However, Georgetown is a VERY different school than Williams or Amherst.

Unbiased opinion (as I have no child attending either). I LOVE the tutorial system at Williams as I think nothing beats that personal relationship with a professor when you can achieve mutual respect. I think it forces the student to think far more critically, and builds a certain sense of confidence in academics as well as any other situation where making a point needs to be tactful and the rest. Amherst has the no required courses, which like Brown, could be seen as a good thing for many. Personally, I would loved to NOT take Math, but on the other hand, would I have found my more complicated passions if I hadn't taken lit, philosophy AND economics? So, what works for some doesn't work for others. However, I would suggest that the OP take a look at Middlebury's international program in addition to these two.

HorseRadish

Wiilliams College is a role model for many academic institutions.

Graduate students of Davidson for instance, among others, would often cite Williams as a model for their school.

Williams is a school of many firsts within academia.

This thread is about understanding the merits of Williams and its tier rivals.

Your education is what you make of it, rather than the school you enter. The school merely mirrors your character, personality and drive.

Williams simply accedes to quality and service to our greater society.

Go Ephs!

Modadunn

^ Kinda general and broad for sure.

And Amherst doesn't? Please.

I think the most interesting thing about the rivalry between the two schools is that a disgruntled group from one left to form the other. So for as much as the two schools are similar, they are also very different indeed. That's what keeps them both running neck and neck in a lot of things.

Ignoring all financial matters (because really, do we think Amherst is not going to survive this blip in their radar?), I think there are pros and cons to both of these schools and all schools. Asking to pinpoint the differences between two purple schools is mostly just going to expose the intense (and good humored in my anecdotal experience) rivalry between the two. They both graduate world-class scholars and indulged society brats. So in as far as that goes, I agree with HorseRadish: Your education is what you make of it more so than the school in which you attend.

GA2012MOM

I'm a litttle puzzled on people comparing these two all the time. Let's simplify it a bit.

Which shade of purple do you prefer?