achiever

I'm an international intending to major in something related to science/maths. Because of the generous aid some LAC's provide to internationals I'm also considering applying to some LAC's like Amherst itself. I've a few questions related to these liberal arts colleges-

1- Are requirements for LAC's different than National Universities? I mean do LAC's consider stuff like SAT/SAT2 less importantly than do national universities. And do they consider stuff like essays and extracurriculars more important than GPA and standardied test scores.

2- Are LAC's a good option for students intending to study majors related to sciences?
If yes, which of these college have good science dapartments?

achiever

bump......anyone plz?

'rentof2

Different colleges (whether LACs or universities) will have their own set of procedures, priorities, etc. You can't really make sweeping statements about how they do things just based on whether it's a LAC or a university. Basically the ingredients are the same; course rigor, grades, test scores, essays, extra-curriculars, recommendations. Not all colleges require all of these things, but the highy selective ones tend to.

How they weight the importance of each element will vary, not just by school but also by student. They will look at the whole picture.

Lots of science/math students attend LACs. At any good school you'll get a good education. I'll leave it others to share their opinions, since this is not an area with which I'm terribly familiar.

TheRoad

The top LAC's like Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore etc aren't any different from the top national universities. Now, if you are looking at much less prestigious liberal arts college, that's quite different but what you are looking at, it will basically be the same. However, the "problem" with LAC's is that they are small and as a result, only accept a few number of students which means every student they choose is chosen for a specific reason or a niche to be a part of in that community.

And as for sciences, I suggest you look forward to national universities with their research departments rather than LAC's. And also, that little myth about LAC's being
generous to International students is definitely not true and should definitely not be the reason why you choose to apply/go to a Liberal Arts college. (Especially not colleges like Amherst and Williams...they already have enough qualified applicants to be partial to international students; for most colleges, it doesn't carry much weight)

However, some LAC's such as Wesleyan have a rather large research area compared
to others...but if I were you, I'd look into national universities since they will provide more
opportunities that you are looking for and you should apply/go to LAC's because of their differentiating characteristics instead of because you think they are partial to international students.

achiever

"That little myth about LAC's being generous to International students is definitely not true"

Really TheRoad!
lets talk acc to statistics....
For example- upenn grants some 50 internationals financial aid from some 1100 int. that compete for it. On the other hand Vassar gives some 50-60 internationals financial aid from a group of 700 (some LAC's are even more liberal than this and some national univs like Cornell even more stingier in int. aid than upenn). Isn't that saying something? Also, i guess getting into Vassar will be easier than getting into upenn. And from what i have heard Vassar is a great college, right?

TheRoad

Those statistics are a bit unfair. (Well, I don't exactly know where you got the Vassar facts) They are unfair because first of all, these two institutions are different in their admission and their financial aid process. Vassar is NOT need-blind in their admission while UPenn is so saying that Vassar provides higher percentage of international students financial aid is true yet you neglect one important fact. Also, the competition is only 390ish for UPenn seeing just because you are applying doesn't mean you are competing for financial aid because their admission process is need-blind and you will only be "competing" afterwards and another crucial fact that you (and I) are missing is not all international students need aid and since both aim for 100% they are relatively same in my opinion.

But I guess I incorrectly made that statement (since a lot of top LAC's aim for 100% while some top national universities haven't) but that fact I think also has to do with the different system of the colleges themselves. LAC's focus solely on Undergraduate while the national universities focus on both while some focus more on graduate colleges so their views on financial aid to undergraduate students differ for a reason.

And you took that one sentence to argue with It took me a while to find where I even said it. But my main point was top LACs are just as hard to get into as top national universities and that you should apply/go to an LAC because of their different characteristics rather than some statistics about how they give more money because it may just be that larger percentage of international students attending UPenn is just able to afford the colleges compared to the percentage of internationals at Vassar.

dchow08

As for sciences, you should contact the colleges individually and ask about their programs. Swarthmore is strong in biology and physics, and we also have engineering. Math instruction is overall good, though there are very few opportunities for research under professors in math.

achiever

@TheRoad- UPenn is not need-blind to internationals!

TheRoad

Really? Ouch, college application process must suck for international students needing aid... Good thing I don't need any.

Well then, I think you shouldn't apply to UPenn and Vassar

TigerDude

While top schools like Amherst will give you a great education in any major, recognize that you will be getting a B.A. degree, not a B.S., if that means anything to you.

achiever

Yes, i knew that they give B.A degrees and not B.S degrees, but I don't know if that limits my grad education in some way? I mean, let's say if i study chemistry in an LAC and get a BA degree can I still go for something like chemical engineering in grad school?

smartalic34

yes, don't let the BA designation scare you. it's mostly due to the emphasis on the "liberal arts" idea that many LACs only give out BAs. as far as I know, the two degrees are pretty much equal if they are in the same area of study. at some schools, the same major can be completed with a BA or BS, and in that case could be different, but when the only option is a BA, I wouldnt worry.

TigerDude

I'm not totally familiar with Chemical Engineering (I'm an ME), but I'm unclear how you could go from a science major to a ChemE graduate degree. It seems to me that the Thermo classes (in particular) would be an expected part of your skill set at the graduate level. Engineering degrees are so full of required courses.

Anyone else familiar with engineering graduate degrees from non-engineering undergrad degrees?

TheRoad

I think if your major is like chemical engineering, you should go to a national universities where they place more emphasis on specific majors than broad liberal arts education.

achiever

^You haven't understood the point. Mainly I am applying to the top national univs ( MIT, some ivy leagues etc), but because I am an international needing substancial aid I have only a few options as far as national univs are concerned. So all I was asking is that does it make sense to apply to some LAC's also? Will doing something like a B.A degree in Chem from an LAC hamper my plans of doing a chemical engineering in grad school?