briansteffy

letsfigureitout: Thanks. My S reserved a 4 hour slot at Unifieds for DePaul, but has not yet submitted the application.

soozievt

NMR...I don't know the numbers that melt each year from particular BFA programs but simply know that a significant number of kids leave most of the programs and the senior class size is smaller than when they were freshmen. Like you say, it happens in other majors or colleges too. And so some of the typical reasons to leave a school exist for any college freshmen.

But I believe SOME who leave BFA programs (not all who leave) do so as it is not right for them and they are not right for the program either. Some truly don't understand what they are getting into. The programs are not like regular college. They are booked solid morning, noon, night, weekends. My own kid understood it and already led a life a lot like that (though college is even more so). It takes a level of passion. It takes a level of work ethic. It takes a level of time management. You know, a lot of folks dismiss having academic qualifications for BFA programs but I disagree. Students who get good grades in demanding classes in high school while juggling artistic training and productions have a certain work ethic and time management skill and general abiilties to endure and thrive in a BFA program. Even in my line of work as a college counselor, I see a DIRECT correlation in students' work ethic and time management skills in doing the applications for college admissions. Time and time again, my students with the better grades, harder high school courses, who are busier in terms of extracurriculars as well, are the ones who are good at time management with applications, put full effort into them, etc. etc. The kids whom I have to nag to do the work, who put off to the last minute, who put low effort into the products they put out and are satisfied with simply meeting requirements (no more beyond that to put out something beyond "good enough") are ones that I worry about being able to make it in a BFA program. I know as a parent of a child IN a very demanding BFA program, what it entails. I see some high school kids who can't handle applications and school or a show and applications or can't get anything done until the last moment, and I wonder how they will be able to handle what I know my D's life is like in a BFA program. My kid has school all day, rehearsals every night and weekend, other committments too numerous to mention, and still has to do the homework for academic classes (write papers), prepare for scenes and songs for the studio classes, and so on and so forth, usually getting home no earlier than 11 PM every night and being booked solid, including weekends. I've heard people say that going to college in NYC would be a "distraction" and they have no idea that there is no time for such "distractions" as the program is all consuming. In fact, my D and her BFA pals stay in the city for several days at the end of each semester just to enjoy things in the city that they don't have time for in their intense schedules! Many, including herself, chose theater jobs in the city over the summer just to be able to do some things there is no time for during the school year due to the intensity of their schedules.

I know in my D's program, after the first year, some kids left. I'd say about 1/8 of them left. They were not failing. There are no cuts in her program. I think for many, it was not what they thought and realized after doing it that it was not for them. This happens at many programs. Then, there are kids who leave programs for other reasons, just like at any college. Some also leave who are cast outside of school, by the way (D has such friends). She has a close friend who left one of the MT "Ivies" who was thriving in the program, exceling, well liked by the head of the program and never was cut, but left for personal reasons. It happens. Not all who leave do so as a BFA isn't right for them and some leave for reasons like at any college. But SOME DO leave BFA programs as they had no clue what it would be like and are not cut out for it. It would be VERY hard to be in a BFA program and all it entails unless you thrived on that sort of life. It is just too much work if you are not really into it. And as I said, at schools particularly where most of the decision to admit is based on artistic talent, they are admitting SOME kids who won't be able to cut it and they can't tell that from an audition. Kids who tend not to have the work ethic (which a school record at least can give some indication of) often can't deal with the high demands of a BFA program. It takes a certain kind of kid who has the work ethic and time management skills to deal with and thrive in such a heavy duty program that a BFA is. It is not for everyone. It is not an easy major. It is not just about being talented. One has to be a very good student to do well in such a program, in my opinion. When I see the work ethic of some students even in the college admissions process itself, it causes me concern on how they will ever make it through a BFA program if they can't juggle some application essays with high school endeavors. If they think that is tough, they won't manage when there is a LOT more on their plate in a BFA program. Students like yours or Brian's (or my own) who have sampled a summer intensive or have an intense year round schedule, and who still do well likely have what it takes to make it through a BFA program. Talent is not all that is needed. I think some think talent is all but it is not, in my view.

If I were an adcom for a BFA program, I would look positively on a student who did well in school while juggling artistic endeavors. A student who was talented but was unable to do well in school would concern me if they had the time management and work ethic needed to make it through a demanding BFA program. I don't know other BFA programs first hand but I know what my D's life is like at Tisch and only the strong survive, LOL. It is not for the type who likes theater but can't handle this demanding schedule. Some don't realize that until they get to a program. And thus, some leave. Hopefully, those who are considering a BFA get a deep look and understanding of what the schedule is like and what the demands are. It is not for the weak at heart. And on top of that, you might be a star back at home but be prepared to be critiqued and pushed at a BFA program and not to rest on your laurels. It is very demanding. They push you past where you are at. You are also among many other talented kids and no longer stand out like before college. Casting is real tough too. Not like home. The standards are high. The schedule is insane. Some love that and thrive. It is not for all people.

NotMamaRose

Nicely said and obviously very true, soozie! I have a very hectic schedule myself as a full time working parent of two kids, and I still marvel when I see the schedules that my D and her student MT and actor friends keep! (I do remind myself that they are a lot younger than I am, but still! ) I get exhausted just watching them. But, as you say, it's good prep for the realities of a BFA program, and even with that prep, I am sure it is still a big adjustment for kids to go from high school and that level of training and practice to living the life of a BFA MT or acting major. I admire these kids a lot.

mamamia

Brian: I think I either e-mailed and/or pm'd you regarding Depaul - I couldn't tell if it went through! Let me know if you don't get it.

briansteffy

I was just talking with a last year student in Pharmacy (6 year program). He started with 750 kids. His cohort has narrowed to 250 and only 125 of those entered with him. The others are students who transferred in with BA's in Chem. - lots of these students also could not make the grade. Of course, he is going to have no problem getting work and his first year's salary will exceed that of many established General Practitioners.

briansteffy

Thanks mamamia, and thanks also to NMR, babar, sozievt, letsfigureitout, hcis, JM-MT (?) and others who have given me good advice. I look forward - whether good or bad news - to telling the conclusion to the story of our application process.

Kudos to CC. My son is in constant contact with the kids in last summer's BU program. He is surprised that many of them do not know what he is talking about when he asks them whether they are going to Unifieds. Very few are aware of CC. Most are applying only to the high-Brand ID programs. If they go to a HS like the one that my S is at, they are not getting any advice. I visited my son's guidance C. on Monday and handed him a list of 12 schools that my S is applying to. He had no clue as to what is involved in applying to BFA programs. He did not know CC, fairtest.org, etc. I should have charged the school my standard consulting fee. It's a shame that students and parents make decisions on an investment (a BU degree = 4 Lexus SUV's) with very little information. College visits help, but, in my opinion as someone in the business, they are not as informative as often assumed, though decisions should ever be made without visiting, as 'being there' at least provides a 'first date' intuition.

lohiaaditya

Hey,

i new at this. i am in a real sticky situation. i am plannign to apply for a acting/ theatre program but i am sooo confused as to what unviersities should i apply to. i read the discussions here...i need to bank upon lesser unviersites incase the best ones dont take me. and choosing among the lesser ones is problem...i guess it would be really cool if someone suggested a few decent programs like university of minnesota or university of texas. and to make the matters worse i only get my SAT scores mid Feb...but i think thats not a problem with most unversities.

please excuse my grammar i am in a real hurry right now.

NotMamaRose

Minnesota is a VERY VERY competitive program to get into, so I wouldn't consider that one of the "lesser" programs or one of the merely "decent" ones, lohiaaditya! I would recommend reading through the whole theater and drama colleges thread (which has several parts) and then coming back with questions. My bet is many of the ones in your head right now will be answered that way. Good luck!

briansteffy

lohiaaditya: The late SAT scores might hurt with some schools. My S is taking the ACT next week (by the way, if you are in the states, you can probably register for the DEC 8th ACT, with a penalty fee). In fact, if you read this today, I bet that you can get a seat at tomorrow's SAT. Go to the websites and register. Pay the late fee and show up. Few take the Dec. tests, so there will be seats. My S showed up at the wrong school in Oct., and it was not a problem finding him a seat.
Regarding safety schools. Read back thru the threads. I have tried to initiate a few conversations about 'safe' BFA programs. I received little feedback. Nevertheless, if you state what part of the country you are willing to live in, I will give you my opinion re: safer schools.
Back to the SATs. There are some programs that will not grant you an audition until they have your scores -FSU, Purchase, NCARTS, Rutgers, for example. But there are a lot of schools that will be OK with getting FEB (likely later in the month - takes about 3 weeks, if taking writing test) SAT scores. A quick list for those who want a 'safer' BFA application and need schools that do not require high GPA/scores - a few of these look to be classy programs, though they do not have BrandID: West Virginia (audition 1st yr), Wyoming (not sure whether audition at all), Montana, Marietta (no audition), Drake (typically audition in March), Rhode Island (horrible web site - last year auditioned, but this year's procedures are not specified). Would love to get a discussion going on - let's call it - third-tier BFA Theater programs (qualification - I do not consider some of the abovementioned third-tier - i.e., Wyoming).

briansteffy

My prize for 'hidden gem' for those who are looking for a good BFA program, if by 'good' is meant good educaton and not post-graduation success on the coasts is the University of Wyoming. The state has been going thru an economic boom and wants out-of-state students (like southern universities pre-80's). Its out of state tuition is the lowest that I have seen for a principal land grant institution. Last week we were informed that nonresident tuition will be lowered by 4K if you have a 1000SAT and 2.5 GPA. The reduction goes up, the higher the test socre/GPA - ceiling is 7K, which, if I am correct, gives you a $5k/per year tuition. Laramie is not a great place (cold/windy, Cheney-like), but drive 30 miles and you are in outdoor heaven. The campus is nice. The theater facilities are state-of-the-art, and the program has out-competed many that have BrandID. True, Rodeo is a major sport, and it would be a culture shock to my son - and it has a bad reputation, given the brutal crime that was committed near Laramie a few years ago - but it is an option that we are considering, especially because they are noted for their stage combat emphasis and they have a new facility for 'acting for the camera'.

NotMamaRose

Yes, unfortunately, most people from the East Coast only know Laramie from "The Laramie Project," which is a profoundly moving piece of theater/art but doesn't make one wish to rush out to live there. It's great that you checked the program out, Brian, and are reporting back that it's a very good university and program and a really top notch "value for your money" choice. (As an aside, when I was a kid in western New York State, I was big into horsebackriding. I rode English and did a lot of jumping, but I boarded my horse at a stable where the owners were very into barrel racing and rodeo riding. To my surprise, I learned to do a little barrel racing and how to haze and dog a bull .... quite fun, once you try it!)

briansteffy

NotMamaRose: About 10 years ago I was toying with a book called 'Surfing Sports' - never wrote it. I was doing triathlons, adventure races, fencing, rock climbing etc. So I started riding (jumping) and liked it, sort of. I noticed that there were few men doing dressage or jumping. Also, it seemed that the women were much better riders. Then I realized, it's a 'man' thing. We feel insecure sitting on a huge animal that has a mind of its own; we want to control the damn thing without understanding it. I have climbed cliffs, run 100 miles, etc, but nothing scared me more than riding a horse, especially getting it to leap over high bars.

All4FSU

Test scores are required for admission to FSU, but they are not necessary to obtain an audition time. For an audition appointment, a student (or parent) only needs to call the School of Theatre and request the appointment. The number is (850) 644-7234.

briansteffy

sorry for the misinformation re: FSU All4FSU

All4FSU

No worries :-)