friedrice

^
My thoughts exactly.

Marian

If you want to pick and choose individual courses, I think APs are better than taking individual IB courses.

Many colleges do not give credit or advanced placement for IB Standard Level courses. They often do give credit or advanced placement for IB Higher Level courses, but a student who is taking only one or a few IB courses might find an HL course inordinately difficult, both because the content is sometimes more extensive and sophisticated than that of an AP course in the same subject and because the IB style of doing things takes some getting used to.

In general, I like IB only as a program for those who are aiming for the full IB diploma, not as a source of individual advanced courses. AP is better suited for the latter.

Hunt

If you're unsure about taking college level courses, it would be easier to reduce your number of AP courses in senior year than it would be to drop out of the IB diploma program.
As others have said, IB is a great program, but it's best to take the whole thing or to choose APs.

Agneisse

UF is famously in love with IB, and I heard UVA likes it well enough. I think colleges will be happy at the 'most demanding courseload' checkmark no matter what program your high school offered, though...I go to an IB school, and people claw to take the whole Diploma. If you're just planning to take a few IB courses for the Certificates, you will very likely be at a disadvantage when compared to your peers doing the Diploma.

Also, within the IB, it is highly advisable to choose the harder courses, e.g. Math SL (2-year calculus based course) over Math Studies SL (1-year, more stats/applied Math), Foreign Language B SL (5 years) over Foreign Language ab initio SL (2-3 years), as some guidance counsellors (including the ones at my school) are no longer automatically checking "most demanding courseload" for simply doing the Diploma.

IB exams are a lot more writing and less multiple-choice than AP, so if a student is not very good at expressing himself/herself through writing, AP might be a better option since so much of IB weighs on writing (not to mention the 4000-word EE and the TOK essay). It's a lot about the 'fit' (like college), whichever program suits a student best and are the best for their grades should be the one they do. It wouldn't do to choose a program that colleges supposedly prefer and then flunk out of all the classes.

Hunt

"some guidance counsellors (including the ones at my school) are no longer automatically checking "most demanding courseload" for simply doing the Diploma."

That's ridiculous (although I'm not denying its veracity)--if that idea were followed to its logical conclusion, there would be only one or two students at each school who could get that designation.

laurstar07

as far as being in an IB program vs a regular high school program with AP classes, more kids from my regular high school program got into the top schools than those from the IB program. Students think that just because they are in the IB program, they have an automatic in with every school that they want, and it isnt the case anymore. out of the many IB students who applied ED to the ivy league schools, i only know of 1 kid who got in ED (cornell)...and maybe 3 total who are going to other ivy schools (cornell, brown, and princeton). why stress out with IB when you can get the same education at a regular high school?

HomeschoolDad

IB may be better for some students, AP is certainly better for many students.

Some background: The International Baccalaureate Programme was invented in Switzerland in 1924, in a school called The International School, to enable the children of League of Nations diplomatic staff to attend a single school. Classes were taught in French. Reasons for this school included promoting inter-cultural understanding and internationalism, and giving families an opportunity to stay together, rather than sending kids off to boarding schools in Europe and America.

In most of the world today, IB Programme schools are still private. They enable diplomats and overseas-stationed businesspeople to keep their kids with them and obtain an education that qualifies their children for admission to universities in their home countries. In Third World nations, the schools qualify the children of native professionals to also qualify for European and American universities. Some schools teach classes in English, others in French, depending on the country in which the schools operate.

In teaching many children classes in not-their-native-tongue, IB has to slow things down, relative to schools in which every student is fluent in the language of the classes. It's not a top-notch academic program. For example, in the US, only ca. 30 private schools offer IB. The Atlanta International School, which charges $20,000 tuition, had the highest SAT average of all American private IB schools in 2005, 1262. That score wouldn't rank in the top three private schools in Oregon or New Mexico.

In the U.S., Canada, and Australia, most IB schools are public. IB-public was originally promoted to inner-city black-student-predominant schools. The idea was that if it worked for students of color overseas, and it was a solid, albeit lowered-pace model, it could help American minority kids get into college, who traditionally would have no chance. It has largely been implemented in schools with large minority populations, albeit many of them now mixed-race magnet schools. The results have been less than magnificent. In the mixed-race magnet schools, white and Asian students disproportionately earn IB Diplomas, relative to minority program participants.

In one state flagship university I am familiar with, every AP subject is creditable, with suitable exam score, but only one-third of IB subjects are. Not because there is an anti-IB prejudice—the university would love to give credit to speed people along and lower enrollment impaction-- but because the university statistically measured the performances of IB students over many years, and they struggled when allowed to skip first-level courses and enroll in second-level courses.

Of note, The IB Organisation's Mission Statement states IB's purpose being to create a more peaceful world. Which is fine. But it has never proposed that it's purpose is to deliver the highest levels of academics available anywhere.

AP was originally devised for the smartest students in the country. All the top private schools adopted AP courses. However, as the College Board has attempted to "democratize" AP, it's been watered down. Many "Ivy League feeder schools" no longer label their college-creditable courses "AP", because these courses correspond to "old AP", but not "new AP". Their students take AP exams nonetheless.

Some students take AP courses in sophomore year, or even freshman year, then enroll in the IB Programme for 11th-12th grades. But most highest-achieving students who attend schools that offer large AP portfolios (20 or more AP courses) and IB, choose AP. In private international schools, students can take 4 HL (college-creditable) courses. In most public IB programme schools, students can take only 3 HL courses.

So for example, in a dual-program school, an early AP enrollee taking 1 freshman course (typically world history), 1-2 sophomore courses (e.g. U.S. history, psychology, studio art), then 3 IB HL courses, would graduate, with 4-5 college-creditable courses. If the same student did AP, he or she could do 1 freshman course, 1-2 sophomore courses, 3 junior courses, and 4 senior courses, i.e. 9-10 college-creditable courses.

The student who wants to take college-creditable biology, chemistry AND physics, must take the AP pathway: IBO doesn't allow three HL science courses to be taken. The superbright science and math student who wants to take calculus-based physics can only do this through AP Physics C: IB's HL Physics is traditional 12th-grade algebra-and-trig-based physics. IB has nothing comparable to AP Computer Science AB.

Very importantly a good number of private schools, and some publics, which have very smart kids who complete AP calculus BC in 11th grade, offer second-year college mathematics, either intramurally, or through local college concurrent enrollment. IB programme students can't do this. If you're an IB student and want to take cutting-edge modern languages such as Mandarin or Japanese, you can't do this. French, Spanish, German: how 1940s.

The College Board, administrator of AP, is a consortium of all highly-ranked private universities and LACs, every public flagship university, all well-respected high schools. It's an American institution. AP is designed to help kids succeed in American colleges and universities. IBO is a European organization. Headquartered in Geneva. President if French. Umm, how many state-school IB Diploma programs does Switzerland have? Zero. How about French state schools? ONE. If it's so cool, how come the seller nations' education ministries aren't buying it?

So, currently over 11,000 of American public high schools offer AP. About 430 offer IB. Numbers for IB are wavy-gravy because IBO North America reports as participants schools that are canceling, but not yet out of IB, and schools that are purchasing the program, but aren't yet teaching it. Nevertheless, 11,000 vs. 430 should tell you something: AP's annual growth is higher than American IB schools in toto. I suppose for parents who are anticipating seeing their kids enroll in the University of Madrid, or the University of Lyon (but you won't get a scholarship for them), an IB diploma makes sense. But if they are going to attend an American college or university, the College Board's AP progam makes more sense.

One of the things that makes AP "American" is that there are vast resources for it. You can get AP exam test preps from many independent publishers. You can join online help sites. IB is a closed system. Unless your kids are enrolled, you can't even find out what materials they use. I'll take American transparency vs. Euro behind-the-curtain every time.

steelyboy

I go to a high school in Birmingham, Alabama called Jefferson County International Baccalaureate School. It was rated # 1 in the nation by Jay Matthews and Newsweek during my freshmen year and has subsequently fallen to 2, 4, and I don't know if he has new rankings for this year. At my school, we combine AP and IB courses. For instance, last year I took AP Human Geography and IB Geography in the same class. Here's how I feel about the situation.

IB is a better program, if you're a diplomma candidate. It is a lot of work, but if you are up for the task, it can be very rewarding. There is much more depth in IB than there is in AP. AP is just a test that you take in May, but IB is a process. That being said, most colleges typically accept AP credit more often than IB. Usually, they only take "higher level" IB credit. Also, AP is more accessible than IB. You see a ton of AP prep books at bookstores, and you don't see any IB prep books.

As far as being prepared for college, IB is better. AP essentially asks you to regurgitate facts that you might forget the day after the exam, but like I said before, with IB, you get depth on a particular subject.

I would suggest trying to go for the IB diplomma and take AP courses. If not, you have to prioritize. Would you rather take courses that most colleges are more willing to accept as credit to get out of basic courses or would you rather be in an engaging and helpful but sometimes incredibly challenging program?

goddessxx

As an IB Student who believes every innocent highschooler deserves to have a LIFE in their secondary education, I recommend the AP.

Just kidding.

I think to put it in the least amount of words:
AP = harder courses, college credits
IB = more difficult experience, more endearing experience

I haven't met anyone who regretted IB afterward, because the experience was really great. We have a full IB Diploma class of 130 at our school, and the program really brought us together (try having 40 people all up at 5am discussing their all-nighter for a Theory of Knowledge paper). I always thought that AP was the quick way to success while IB truly gives you a taste of pain and joy.

For those who want to go into an international-related field, I recommend IB for its large emphasis on global understanding and cultural interaction.

Just a quick note on some very stringent IB requirements to be completed in your two years
1) 4000 Word Extended Essay on one of the IB subjects
2) 3 or 4 HLs, 2 or 3 SLs, only HLs count for univ credit mostly
3) 150 hours of CAS - Creative, Action, Service (ie. sports and volunteer)
4) Theory of Knowledge Class - you discuss philosophy, some people called it anti-religion, meh
5) Deadly May exams (oh god someone save me, they're a month away!!) This year I have 10 in the first week, 2 in the second week, and 4 in the last week because subjects are split into Paper 1, 2, and 3
6) Countless suffering buddies
7) Success in the real world.
8) Ability to produce coherent but largely BS-ed posts as this, cheers.

tokenadult

I've observed that one. I think recently another CC participant quoted the high school proverb, "IB, therefore I b.s."

Good luck to all of this year's applicants. The news from the remaining colleges to announce news mostly comes soon.

Ephemeral2

IB is like taking 6 AP classes in a year, but with the Extended Essay, Theory Of Knowledge (and its essay), 180 CAS hours (the requirement at my school), IAs for each subject, two day exams, 15 minute impromptu english/spanish/french orals, etc mixed in - all EXTRA work done out of class. As someone above said, it is endearing, but extremely time-consuming.

friedrice

I have a question that has been bothering me for a while:

If IB SL tests are comparable to AP tests, why do 99% of universities don't accept SL test scores?

Is there a conspiracy?

goddessxx

AP, from the books I've read, is sort of in between IB HL and SL. I took Chem HL last year and picked SL this year, and there is a HUGE difference. There's no way that AP Chem is like Chem SL.

IB SL courses are either like regular courses or even lower than regular courses (in the case of Chemistry, it doesn't even measure up to the BC Provincial 12 Chem here).

sugangel7

As far as I'm aware, IB SL tests are not always comparable to AP tests, so there's no conspiracy. And I think the person above me is right when they say AP falls sort of in between HL and SL.

Although I'm in the IB program and I would say that depending on the subject the SL test can be comparable to the AP test or it cannot but, quite honestly, the same goes for HL tests. I'm taking HL Spanish and the HL test is not nearly as hard as the AP Spanish Literature and I would say AP Spanish Language test as well.

Not to say that you're not getting as good an education with the IB program if the HL or SL subject test isn't as hard as the AP test in that subject or vice versa, but the two program just have such different learning/teaching philosophies which impact what they choose to focus on in the various subjects across the board. If that makes sense

I would say this is pretty much accurate. The only thing is I think the part about 'harder courses' can be misleading. Like steelyboy said, AP is really about a regurgitation of facts than anything else which I think is what makes certain AP classes/tests harder because it's just so technical and AP asks you to be this brilliant machine who can just know everything -- even the most obscure stuff -- there is to know about the particular subject.

My friends and I say that AP tests try and find out what you don't know, while I.B. tests want to find out what you do know.

I love I.B. because I think that taking the full diploma programme really is a more endearing experience and it does bring you closer together with your peers but most of all it allows you a freedom of expression and intellectual creativity that I don't think you get with A.P. With stuff like the ToK and E.E. essay and alot of our internal assessments, it's really up to you the student to take an active role in your own education and CHOOSE something you are passionate about and like and write a scholarly essay/paper on it. You can't just sit there and study and absorb the information that they want you to now and then fill in bubbles based on this storage of information.

And okay, I guess now it sounds like I'm bashing AP (and yes you DO write essays in AP too) and I guess part of those statements might be just how IB or AP is run at my school and obviously these statements don't apply to everyone. You still are intellectually challenged with AP but I'm just more likely to get kids in AP classes that are just studying for the test and don't care about what they're learning just about how what they're learning will look good to colleges. And I guess alot of kids do that and that's their prerogative and they'll care once they get into the college they want...I guess just being in I.B. has really highlighted to me the importance of actually making school about learning and not just test-taking or studying for some test or to make the grade.

Obviously I do that too and it's important to me to get good grades, but the reason I don't regret my I.B. experience is because it really has allowed me to fulfill my intellectual potential in a manner that I don't think could've happened with A.P.

And wow, my post has nothing to do with what the original thread question is asking.

But for people wondering what to choose...I'm a complete I.B. advocate but I do realize that it is not for everyone. Honestly, I think there are some schools that do prefer I.B. and if you just ask, I think they'll make it clear if they do or not (BC I know does, universities in Florida like was mentioned, the diploma takes care of your first year at Pitzer). But right now the majority I'd say do regard them with equal weight like they say.

I think when it comes down to it, it might not be so much AP vs IB but what courses you decide to take in either of those programs. Colleges will want to see that you've taken either AP or IB (or honors, whatever is the most demanding at your school) or both and then they'll look at how many and how challenging of AP or IB courses/tests you took.

P.S. At my school though, only if you do the I.B. program do you get the designation of "Most Demanding." I guess that's based on our I.B./A.P. coordinator's perspective though (although I'm not sure if she coordinates AP still...)

california_love8

as an IB kid, I have one piece of advice: Don't do IB, do AP.

IB is worthless...end of story.