Soulside Journey

This is because UF receives at least 1/6 of the graduating class from my school each year, a large portion of whom are IB students.

As an IB student, I would definitely recommend the program. It is what you make it. If you make it worthless, it will be worthless.

My school offers classes that prepare you for both AP and IB exams - for example, AP/IB English Language or AP Calculus AB/IB Math SL. This sort of curriculum is preferable to choosing either AP or IB.

Volcomwave

I'm a senior in IB. My school offered AP and IB. I believe that if your kid goes to an IB school then it will look bad if they are not in IB. If they go to a non-ib school, then AP is just as good as IB. IB is harder, but the school won't hold it against you if you don't have it at your school.

tybball08

IMO, IB is not harder, but definitely more work. If you work incredibly hard in IB, and you are not as smart as the top students in your class, you can still get your diploma. If you work incredibly hard in 7 or 8 AP classes, but you are just not "smart" enough, it does not necessarily mean you will do well. IB is a very strong "high school" diploma. AP courses are "college level" classes. you decide which is higher.

*note: IB promotes itself as a "diploma program" where college board AP promotes itself as "college level" courses. It is not my opinion that IB offers a strong diploma and AP courses offer college level classes, but these are statements from respective websites.

hktk

At my daughter's school, the school believes that its IB curriculum is its most rigorous curriculum - even though it has no history since this is its first IB graduating class. My daughter originally signed up for the full-fledged IB diploma, found it not to be challenging and focused in areas she was not interested in. She dropped out and is taking a mixture of AP and IB classes. She is among 4 National Merit Finalists at her school (3 of whom opted not to take IB). Yet the school still presents IB as its most rigorous curriculum. As April 1 rolls around, it will be interesting to see if she will be hurt by the fact that she dropped out of IB.

Soulside Journey

Naturally, a school is going to encounter problems when introducing any new curriculum for the first time. I believe that my school is now in its 28th year of offering the IB Diploma Program, and I've consistently noticed that there's a substantial difference between the students enrolled in the IB program, taking both AP and IB classes, and just students taking AP classes. The majority of our National Merit Finalists are IB students. The majority of the top 10% of our class are IB students. Forgetting the statistics, the IB students simply seem more focused, more diverse, and less...dumb, to put it bluntly.

hktk

Yes, I would imagine that a well-established IB program would be better than a fledgling IB program. However, the question remains regarding how the colleges will react to a student who chose not to continue in a fledgling IB program which did not suit her needs. In the high school's evaluation, she did not take its most rigorous program - IB - despite the fact that she is taking Math (AP BC Calculus), Chemistry (Organic) and Spanish (AP 6th year) at higher levels than are being offered in IB.

Soulside Journey

In that case, the IB program there seems to have some serious faults. Here, AP Calculus BC is integrated with IB Math Higher Level, and students take both exams at the end of the year. The same is true for AP Chem and Spanish.

hktk

Her high school's IB program did not offer Higher Level Math or Higher Level Chemistry. Even as an IB candidate, she was not taking IB Math - it would have been too repetitive for her. That's part of why my daughter left the program - that, and that it did not allow her to do as much theater as she wanted to do because theater is not part of its IB program either. Apparently not all IB programs are alike - hopefully the colleges recognize that.

Marian

A couple of cynical comments on goddessxx's list:

1) 4000 Word Extended Essay on one of the IB subjects

You can do an absolutely terrible job on this and get zero points, and you will still get your IB diploma. Only if you fail to turn it in at all will it cost you your diploma. I know IB students who deliberately chose to put minimal effort into their Extended Essays for just this reason.

5) Deadly May exams (oh god someone save me, they're a month away!!) This year I have 10 in the first week, 2 in the second week, and 4 in the last week because subjects are split into Paper 1, 2, and 3.

The only exams you have to worry about are the ones you take in your junior year -- two SL exams at most. Your scores on those will go on some college applications. As for the rest, who cares? You will already be admitted into college long before you get your exam scores. Worst case: you don't get enough points for the IB diploma. So what? This will have absolutely no effect on your future. In fact, because you don't get your scores until July, even your friends will never know that you didn't get the diploma unless you tell them.

My daughter is a freshman in college. The officials at her college never asked her to report her senior year IB scores to them. She could have had her scores sent if she wanted to, but since she knew she would get no additional credit or advanced placement from those scores (beyond what she had already gotten from AP tests), she did not bother to do so. The college never questioned this. She could have failed her IB tests and not received the diploma, and her college would never know. (In fact, she didn't even come close to failing -- only 24 points are required, and she got a 39 out of 45 -- but that's irrelevant.)

Please note that I'm not an IB student. I'm an IB parent. But parents can be cynical, too.

AmandaisaGator

"As for the rest, who cares? You will already be admitted into college long before you get your exam scores. Worst case: you don't get enough points for the IB diploma. So what? This will have absolutely no effect on your future."

I'm graduating from college a year early because of my IB diploma + AP credits. therefore, recieving my IB diploma did affect my future a bit.

HomeschoolDad

This is for advisement to a relatively small group of students, i.e. extraordinary achievers, trying to choose between IB and AP.

Which is better, IB or AP?

IB is better if you're smart and hard-working enough to complete 3 college-creditable courses as a high school student, and want enter college with up to a semester's worth of credit (15-18 credit hours).

IB is better if you're "socially conscious", because instilling social consciousness is IB's core mission.

IB is better if you want to receive training in maximal multi-tasking.

IB is better if you enjoy subsisting on 6-7 hours of sleep, because with 6 courses plus CAS, IB is not for "early"-to-bed-goers, i.e.11 PM or earlier. (But perhaps you or your parents should read up recent research showing the major negative effects of sleep deprivation on teenagers, including cognitive functioning impairment.)
-----------------------------------------------
AP is better for math and science students. It lets them focus on what they're best at.

AP is better for top-caliber students who want to go to the Ivies, Stanford, MIT, et al. Such students today often take 8 to 10 AP courses. In the highest-competition applicant pools, 8 to 10 AP courses with 4-5 scores get hands-down preference over 3 AP courses with 4-5 scores and 3 IB courses with 6-7 scores, excluding athletes, legacies, minority applicants, and geographic-diversity-roster-fillers, such as "This student from Kimball Nebraska has a 2260 SAT; his teachers and gc say he's the best student they've ever had; he has taken 2 AP courses, which is all that his school offers."

AP is better for students whose schools teach, or else offer local-college enrollment in, second-year college courses. Today kids are taking linear algebra, organic chemistry, Elizabethan literature, Spanish VI and post-AP computer science these days.

AP is the only option for students who want to do 3 years of high school and then go on to college. It only takes enrolling in a summer English course to fulfill the 4-year English graduation requirement in 3 years. Obviously, unless an IB programme allowed 10th graders to be enrolled, this would be impossible.

AP is the only option for students who want to enter college with a full-year or more of credit, i.e. gaining admission from high school to sophomore standing, saving a year of college costs. (Caveat: some private colleges limit AP credits to a ceiling number, but many, and most state universities give unlimited credit.)

There's a dual-program school in my region that offers 27 AP courses and IB. The highest-aspiration, NMS Finalist students overwhelmingly flock to the AP option, and every math and science student does

IB has given public schools a much better college-preparatory pathway than regular curricula. But as a "wholistic package", it is short on flexibility and maximal college-course crediting. It's a "middle-goal" bureaucrat's invention. For example, why, if 75th-85th percentile-ability 11th graders do IB, why doesn't IBO send schools this memo: "Feel free enroll your 95th-99th percentile-ability 10th graders in the IB programme, based on their 9th grade PSAT scores, SAT/ ACT scores, or whatever measures you deem appropriate?"

AP allows 9th and 10th grade kids to take college-level classes. Last year, in AP courses that are equivalent to IB HL courses, 3050 9th and 10th graders took AP Calculus BC; 3182 took AP Physics B; 5428 took AP Chemistry ; 12,118 took AP English Lit; 4016 took AP Computer Science; 18,901 took AP Biology. There is no IB pathway for these top-achieving students, in the subjects they are passionate about.

4390116

well. my school only offers IB, but i think that domestic colleges are equally aware of the two programs.

i'm a little confused though. some IB courses aren't exactly "rigorous." i don't know about AP, but IB-SL Math Studies is absolutely ridiculous. it's easier than algebra II -.-

also, as the above poster said, IB age limits suck. i am currently taking IB-SL math studies as a freshman, and because i'm not yet 16, i'm not allowed to take (and gain credit for) the end-of-year exam. but whatever.


okay i see where you're coming from, but most relatively urban HS's these days offer some kind of dual-enrollment, so graduating (or at least taking a full college schedule) early is pretty much available to anyone--IB or AP.

curious77

IB provides many levels of Math for students of varying abilities. If you have high ability in math, then you should not be taking the Math Studies course. You should be on the Math HL track, which covers materila beyond Calc BC and requires three testing sessions plus the internal assessment.
A poster above incorrectly said that theater is not part of IB. In fact it is an option, as are art, computer science, music, etc. Go to the IBO site.
Finally, as far as homeschool dad's "extended essay", he is way off base and sounds quite angry.
My S gained admission to Stanford based on his enrollment (and success in) an IB diploma program. Many of his classmates (and prior year graduates) attend the Ivies, MIT, Duke, to name a few. The IB diploma program requires a special student with characteristics that include dedication, honor, sacrifice and collaboration. These students test for multiple sessions for each course, even for SL courses. They are required to take oral exams as well. They complete internal assessments that are graded by their teachers and then a sampling is checked by international examiners to validate the scores. All of their exam papers are scored externally.
All of our high school's NMFs are IB kids. It has been that way for years. The IB kids are the leaders of the school, they are the officers of the service and academic clubs, they have the top GPAs, they serve the school and each other. The teachers love to teach them. Our school uses some AP classes within the IB program. These classes are filled with only IB students while the same AP class is offered to non-IB students. The AP test pass rate for the IB students is at least twice as high as that for the non-IB students. The senior IB students come back to school for two hours for the pinning ceremony for the IB Juniors. No threats, no extra credit, no service hours. They just do it. These kids amaze me and I am proud to watch their success in academics and in life.
To be frank, neither AP exam scores or IB scores from senior year are used in the college admissions process. We received a letter from Stanford telling us the admissions offer was not dependent on passing AP or IB exams. The school merely encouraged the SCEA students to take these rigorous courses rather than cruising for the remainder of high school.

upton

The semantics of "diploma" versus "college level" are incomparable primarily due to the fact that the IB is, as its name suggests, an International program. To put this in context, in most advanced industrialized nations, the final two years of academic work in "high school" (or Grades 12 and 13) during which these students complete the IB curriculum often substitutes for a traditional American college education. For example, students in UK may apply (from Grade 13) to Medical or Law school with IB scores.

Secondly, as an IB year one student myself, I must note that I, as well as many of my fellow students, enroll in AP courses as electives to fill our schedule. In addition, our teachers squeeze AP curriculum into our IB classes, and IB students generally perform better on AP tests (without taking the course) than students enrolled in the appropriate course.

Finally, the IB assessment criteria are holistic while those of the AP are narrow. The IB grade for one subject usually comprises a formal paper (or two), hands-on activities (labs for science, performance for music, etc.), oral presentations (for languages), and then an examination at the end of the course. This method allows the assessment of the student's complete mastery of the subject, rather than his/her rote memorization or test-taking ability.

tybball08

Homeschooldad said it the best.

Upton, one, if you think IB and AP are incomparable then why are YOU comparing them. two, yes IB is an international diploma, which will allow you to go abroad and study in college. do you know what the percentage is of graduating american seniors who will wish to do that? i would guess close or less than 5%. So for the 95% of graduating seniors, who will going to college in the US, would not need an "international" diploma and can benefit more from many many AP classes (8-9 by end of senior year).

As i will repeat myself, IB itself reports that it is "diploma" program (i would say a very very strong HIGH SCHOOL one indeed). << That is on their OWN sponsored website. AP itself reports that is a "college level" program designed to give credits for college courses.

very very strong high school level vs. college level. which is more rigorous? who knows? which one do colleges PREFER (as the original question was)? IMHO, i would go for the COLLEGE courses, because we are trying to get into COLLEGE, rather than the strong high school courses.