jake321

You can choose to test HL in any class you want. Many people choose to do English and History because they are easy, but you are not required to. The requirements class wise is making sure you take a subject in each "group".

curious77

Never said an AP only student would not participate and contribute to their schools and communities. Just described the IB student and the program's fostering of the collegial spirit. I disagree on CAS being limiting since it encourages not only service but artistic endeavors and action.
I also never said AP is not valuable and suitable for many students.
Primarily my response to OP is to look at everything but do not accept several suggestions by misinformed posters that IB is not college level and thus college admissions officers will prefer AP. This is not factually supported.

BUBound09

Adding on to what some people have said the IB program tends to be more consistent in term of difficulty where as A.P. you can have a pud teacher.

Fin-IB

HomeschoolDad,

You have a lot of misconceptions about the IB programme, which you are presenting as facts. I feel compelled to correct them:

1) You claim that the super bright science/math students cannot study at a sufficiently advanced level compared with AP.
FALSE. You imply that the AP Physics C is for these super bright students, whereas the IB Physics HL isn't. Well if this is true, would you care to explain to me why MIT has the following requirements for Physics course credits:
AP: For a score of 5 on both parts of the Physics C test, credit will be given for 12 units of subject 8.01, Physics I. For scores lower than 5, no credit is awarded.
IB HL: For a score of a 7, credit will be given for 12 units of subject 8.01, Physics I and students may begin immediately with subject 8.02 or 8.022 (Physics II).

2) You claim that IB has nothing comparable to AP Computer Science AB.
FALSE. If that is true, why on earth is there a course that's called Computer Science, offered both at HL and SL, on the IB statistical bulletins?

3) You claim that the really smart kids who take the IB cannot take advanced college-level courses in mathematics.
FALSE. If that is true, what the heck is the IB Further Mathematics SL course then? And why, of the 20 US students who took that exam in 2006, 10 got a 2, 1 got a 6, and no one got a 7?

This gets me to a pretty important issue that you have ignored: grade inflation. On the IB HL Math exam in May 2007, 8% got a 7, mean grade being 4.43. On the AP Calculus BC exam in 2007, 43% got a 5, mean grade being 3.70 (note that IB scale goes from 1-7, AP only from 1-5). Does that not imply, that if looked upon as equivalent courses (again I suggest you visit for instance MIT's website, where you will notice that they give the same credit), a 5 in Calculus BC exam is relatively a lot easier to achieve than a 7 in HL Math? This has been proven to be true by a lot of students in other threads; a 7 in a HL subject is generally harder to get than a 5 in AP.

And where did you get the idea that IB students are prohibited to take courses at the local college, whereas AP students aren't?

4) You claim that IB students cannot take 'cutting-edge languages', like Mandarin or Japanese.
FALSE. How many AP exams were there again? 37? Of these 37, 6 are languages: Spanish, German, French, Japanese, Chinese and Italian. So AP has Japanese, Chinese and Italian, that IB supposedly doesn't? Well guess what: IB has all of them and a whole lot more. Yep, from Albanian to Vietnamese, the IB basically has them all. And the IB has nearly all of them at three different levels, A1 i.e. literature, A2 i.e. literature of a foreign language, and B i.e. foreign language, with all these both at HL and SL.

Some other people as well have made remarks about the IB's inflexibility, which actually is not due to the programme itself, but the individual schools and their scarce resources. Not all IB schools can offer all the subjects, (examples of ones not offered by AP: Business and Management, Information Technology in a Global Society, Philosophy, Theatre Arts, Social & Cultural Anthropology and Design Technology), just like not all American high schools can offer all of the 37 AP's. Consequently, IB is actually more diverse than AP given the amount of different subjects and exams available.
The IBO is also not that strict on the subject choices as it is implied here. In my school there are students with all sciences at HL, who will also do the final exams at HL, and students with no subjects from the social sciences.

You also talked about College Board:
"The College Board, administrator of AP, is a consortium of all highly-ranked private universities and LACs, every public flagship university, all well-respected high schools. It's an American institution." Let's connect this with a statement you made before: "In one state flagship university I am familiar with, every AP subject is creditable, with suitable exam score, but only one-third of IB subjects are. Not because there is an anti-IB prejudice—the university would love to give credit to speed people along and lower enrollment impaction"
Shouldn't you be able to see something fishy going on here? If the universities are the ones behind the AP, then wouldn't they be biased in determining acceleration-credit policies? Wouldn't they want to protect their own creation, i.e. the AP? There is no reason for universities to give more credit to IB exams, even if they actually should, as this would create an incentive for students to do the IB instead of AP.

Oh and as a final remark, I have no idea where you got your background information from. The IB diploma programme was created in 1968, not in 1924. (International Baccalaureate Organization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

--------------------------------------
IB 2009
HL: Mathematics, Physics, Economics, English B
SL: Further Mathematics, A1 Finnish, French B

tokenadult

It only shows that fewer of the students who show up to take the IB test reach the indicated scoring level. Colleges in the United States do validation studies of what scores on different tests mean for their placement purposes. (Those have been going on for AP tests in the oldest AP subjects since before I was born.)

Marian

A 5 on the BC Calculus test is MUCH easier to obtain than a 7 on the IB HL Math test.

In fact, it may be easier to obtain a 5 on the AB BC Calculus test than a 7 on the IB standard level Math test. Ask my daughter. She got a 6 on IB SL Math and a 5 on AP BC Calculus.

IB scores of 7, in general, are few and far between. Scores of 6 are not so rare but are still considerably less common than scores of 4 or 5 (considered together) on most AP tests.

This is something to think about when a student plans what tests to take at the end of high school. Many IB students take AP tests in their SL subjects as "backups" because their colleges don't give credit for IB SL scores. But sometimes, it also makes sense to take an AP test as a backup for an IB HL test.

My daughter did this for English. To place out of a required freshman writing seminar at her college, a student has to have either a 5 on one of the AP English tests (either one will do) or a 7 on the IB HL English test. My daughter knew that the chances of her getting a 7 on the IB test were slim. So she also took the AP English Language test, with no preparation whatsoever. She got a 5 on the AP test (which got her the exemption from the writing course) and a 6 on the IB test (which would have gotten her absolutely nothing).

hktk

Signing up for IB and then changing her mind and withdrawing from the program apparently did not affect admissions for my daughter. Admitted to Northwestern, Oberlin and Kenyon, among other schools. Still awaiting Williams. Has not been rejected from any school, but wait-listed at one school for apparently perceived (and accurate) lack of real interest.

ctmomof3

From our college visits, we summed up that if a kid has the chance and this is important to note because lots of schools do not offer IB, but if they have that chance, that it is extremely highly regarded amongst particularly higher ranked colleges, every admissions rep we spoke to couldnt' say enough good things about it and how it looks on an app. But again everything in context, if your school offers AP and you take those and do well then in my eyes its the same...its more about taking the most rigorous load your particular school offers.

curious77

Which colleges did you visit? I have had similar experiences. However at JH the admissions person, when asked which is considered by admissions as most rigorous at a school that offers both, said to me "there are very few schools that offer both and they (the JH adcoms) know those schools." Actually, in Florida, there are many schools that offer both. While he did say, that where both are offered they view IB as the most rigorous, I was concerned about the lack of awareness of the many schools that offer both AP and IB. This fact clearly shows on the IB student's transcript since the IB kids (at schools that offer both) all have taken many AP courses and AP course are even used in the IB sequence during non-testing years.

excelblue

I go to a HS where both AP and IB is offered, and a good number of students (usually the top ones) do both. Since they do their best to combine the AP and IB classes into these extensive classes, I can say that I have views of both sides.

With AP, the classes resemble US college courses more, some are more rigorous than IB courses, and you have much more flexibility. It's well known in the US, and you can set it up so you take exactly what you want.

In IB, you have a comprehensive well-rounded program where you are made to do lots of work. It's a huge commitment in which you start the program your junior year and work to the end. If you cut anything, you're pretty much losing everything, since the IB certificates by themselves mean very little. There's lots of work, and you'll get some unique experiences such as TOK, etc. However, the program basically strips out personality when it makes everyone do the same things. Yes, there's still a little amount of flexibility, but I'd have to say anything below that, and it'll be almost unacceptable. Also, it is important to note that many requirements take away your summer, are graded in somewhat questionable ways, and are just generally brutal.

Which one is better depends on you. If you're just a well-rounded student who needs some pushing, IB is excellent. However, if you're particularly strong at some areas, have some well-defined passions, etc., IB can be quite limiting and destroy the last two years of your high school life. For example, when I entered HS, I was disqualified from IB for having too advanced of a Spanish level, making it so that I can't take the right courses at the right time. The same almost applied to my math level; those with a similar math level had to carefully plan and go thru many pointless technicalities just to get IB (eg. pushing off Statistics until senior year when they're already taking Calculus sophomore year).

From my friends who are in IB, there are very few that really like it. Most just do it for an extra item on their resume. I went with AP because I was able to emphasize my strengths in math and science.

In short, IB is an all-around personality-shaper that makes an average person much better, though its effectiveness is limited to certain people; AP allows you to challenge yourself in areas you're strong at. Which one is better depends on you. When it comes to colleges, they just think - what did you do that made you a better student than many others?

sugangel7

Here is a link to a related thread in the college admissions section that's compiling info about those accepted to the Ivy League and if they took AP or IB. Could be of help and interest to those wondering which colleges prefer!

Marian

I would think that your school could do better than that.

At the IB school my daughter attended, students who were too far advanced in a language simply discontinued their study of that language for a year or two in the early part of high school (most of them took a different language or another academic elective instead) and then resumed their study of the language in 11th and 12th grades, taking the IB HL exam at the end of 12th grade.

Admittedly, it is a bit difficult to resume your study of a foreign language after not having used the language for a year or two, but as many college students can tell you, it is possible.

I am surprised that your IB coordinator didn't think of this option. Disqualifying you from IB because you were too advanced in Spanish should not have been necessary.

hktk

My daughter dropped out of her school's fledgling IB program because it was not rigorous enough for her and did not allow her to pursue her other interest (theater). The HS represents its IB program as its most rigorous program despite the fact that this is the first graduating class, it has no history with the exams, and other classes (especially in Math/Science) were more rigorous than those offered in IB. She ended up taking a mixture of IB and AP classes which was truly more rigorous than than the IB offered, except for the essay and CAS requirements. She is a National Merit Finalist with a 3.9 UW GPA. She was accepted at Northwestern (among others) and rejected at Williams. It is hard to say whether her decision to drop IB hurt her since admittance to either school was viewed as essentially a coin flip for her and she got into one and not the other. She applied to 11 schools and Williams was her only rejection. If it hurt her, it did not hurt her much not to complete IB.

jason32894

I've been wondering.. My high school offers both the IB and the AP programs along with a program called the ATMS.

I'm starting my freshman year with either Trig or Stats for math in ATMS, but for my other classes, I am confused whether I should choose the IB or the AP.

From what I've heard, IB isn't as great as the AP in the POV of American colleges, but my teachers are recommending the IB classes becuase it's an easier program that offers the same amount of credit.

I am VERY confused.

khaki

If IB is easier, take AP.