Div 1 and honors program/workload

LivesinHobbiton · 07-11-2012, 11:38 PM

I apologize that I seem to be posting repeatedly...I truly do use the advanced search tool but can't find what I am looking for.

The problem with some of the Div 1 programs that either have contacted d or that we have looked at--they are huge universities with very demanding sports programs. Can someone comment on whether it is possible to be in a demanding D1 program and also be in, say, the honors program at the university. Our state school (UNH) has an honors program, as does UConn, Fordham, URI, etc. For example, the Fordham honors program is a dream. But the swim life is very intense. I am not sure whether it is even remotely possible to be in these programs and be an athlete in D1. I know some of you have children who are majoring in engineering, pre-med, etc. in D1. Do the travel trips and training make it impossible to take advantage of these programs?

momof2010 · 07-11-2012, 11:58 PM

I would not recommend it. My son goes to a demanding academic D1 school and it is HARD... He breezed thru high school with 4.3 and it's a whole new ball game in college. He even switched majors because he was in Bio Sci and the Chem labs etc.. were just too much with his sport. Granted his sport misses the most of any collegiate sport but its still very tough. Just trying to manage being a regular student athlete is enough for most.

LivesinHobbiton · 07-12-2012, 12:41 AM

Hi momof2010, I really appreciate the honesty! my d says she doesn't want d1 but the d3 options are all very selective schools. I'm worried she won't get in to any of them! And now we are hearing that not all of them offer pre-reads and you are supposed to apply just like everyone else with no clue if your sport helps your application or not. It would have solved everything if d would accept an offer from one of these d1 schools but she is very skittish about trying to do it all. I will take your counsel very seriously....

momof2010 · 07-12-2012, 01:07 AM

I think the most important thing your daughter should consider is if she will be happy where she is at school if sports is no longer in the picture. Kids have a change of heart, or they get hurt, or they struggle, whatever might be the case. She should love the school, location, size, student body, staff.. all of that stuff really matters. Best of luck.

fogfog · 07-12-2012, 07:56 AM

Wanted to add...a DD of a friend swims for a big D1 program-- she has big dreams for herself in her sport etc.
She is in the pool ALOT...so much that they expect it will take 5 yrs...and she is fully funded.

katydid2010 · 07-12-2012, 08:22 AM

This is a great thread and so helpful to parents like me who are in the same boat. My observation from seeing kids from my children's school who go DI is that they go with the intention to "major" in the sport. It is a tough sell to convince kids who might be able to play at the DI level that DIII might be a better, balanced choice. But, as you said, OP, DIII is difficult to get a clear picture of financially. Most want you to commit ED and say that their rosters will be all filled if you don't, so it seems to be a risk to appy to several RD and compare packages.

fenwaysouth · 07-12-2012, 08:51 AM

LivesinHobbiton,

It is an excellent question, and I think one that get overlooked far too often. I applaud you and your daughter for considering it. Please understand that I know very little about swimming except that it is extremely time consuming. In addition, I do not know what the time committment difference is between a regular student and an honors student. We looked at a couple honors programs for some large schools, and my son wanted to go in a different direction, so we did. Truthfully, I would want to have a heart to heart with potential coach about the travel schedule, how many swimmers travel, and how often do they travel. Does the coach have someone on their roster that is doing the things your daughter wants to do? Looking at a D1 roster and schedule is some very "telling" research.

In my son's case he is a weekend starting baseball pitcher. He is also an engineering major. He does not travel to mid-week games, but he does have mid-week practices and workouts. The Ivys (D1) limit the travel team to 22 players at a time, so he is only included on weekend trips. It is still difficult, but he has found this to be a manageable situation and loves his school and engineering program. If his arm fell off tomorrow he would absolutely continue at this school. His baseball schedule looks more like a D3 (limited travel) than it does a D1. He actually found a unique situation that has the best of D1 and D3 rolled into one.

I think the big question is what is the time committment difference between a regular student and honors program. In addition, is there other alternative D1 programs than the A-10 or America East that travel less? Based upon what you shared I think D3 is definite alternative, and I think it is one she should explore in more depth. Where you live has some great D3 schools. You can't worry about a school that possibly may not accept her. The worst you can do is not consider D3 at all IMHO. My son and I butted heads on this D1 vs D3 topic a hundred times at the dinner table. Sometimes the dialogue got heated since I knew what it was like to be college athlete. I had no idea what it was like to be an engineering major. In the end, he found what he was looking for by constantly reaching out to new coaches and new situations. I think your daughter should do the same, and now she knows the right quesitons to ask!

Good luck!

schoolhouse · 07-12-2012, 08:24 PM

It can be done, but as one athlete told my daughter on her recruit trip when you are an honors student and you still want to compete you are going have to make a D1 executive decision. Study or compete at NCAA championship winning level, Study or Sleep etc..... her roommate was admitted to the university through the honors program, assigned to an honors dorm etc..., but she wants to compete and that is a different track. Two of her other friends faced the same dilemma this year as freshmen and both were on academic probation after one quarter(now one was an art major and the other was chemical engineering and I don't know if the played around, but I do know they worked their butts off in practice(8:30-11:00 during the season). I don't think neither competed after January, but they should get National Championship Rings for their efforts. So depending on where you land and your own personal fortitude it can be done.

LivesinHobbiton · 07-12-2012, 08:35 PM

thanks so much for the input....so hard to figure this out! katydid, we won't qualify for anything close to a full ride but we have four kids and would appreciate any kind of help a school might give us, especially since these D3 schools are all very expensive. DH thinks that if the school offers a financial preread, we can trust the outcome of that, so he supports going ED if d has a strong preference for one school over another. The problem is, at least one of d's favorites has no pre-read of any kind. And when asked, the financial aid officer said that if she is accepted ED, we are required to accept whatever aid package they give us, even if it's all sorts of terrible unsubsidized loans. That seems crazy to me, especially since we can't compare to the other schools.

D has been offered admissions and financial prereads from a bunch of other D3 schools, and that would certainly make her feel better about the admissions process. Thing is...not all of them are at the level that d wants in swimming.

But they are all academically very good.

This is why we started looking at D1...the process is so much better defined and you don't have that difficult dance of financial aid, ED, and getting admitted. And that's why we were looking at honors colleges, to try to balance what d would be missing by passing up the nice LACs. It sounds like from what many of you are saying, though, it may be impossible to keep both sports and academics at such a high level in D1.

And d doesn't want to leave New England! aaack. She has now conceded that she will go as far as NY. I don't want her to leave, either, but if you don't include Pennsylvania it's much harder! Lots of great schools there! Just got an email from a wonderful college in Ohio and it's sad but I know she won't even consider it--even though it has a great swim program. I have to keep remembering that she is only 17 and doesn't feel ready to leave home quite yet.

varska · 07-12-2012, 08:37 PM

Great question and definitely something to be aware of going in. You might find this 'day in the life' article enlightening. Not honors program, but Ivy neuroscience and D1 track.
Tier One AthleticsThe Athlete’s View Tier One Athletics

fenwaysouth · 07-13-2012, 08:33 AM

LivesinHobbiton,

I've been at this a few years with my oldest. I'm about to go through athletic recruiting (possibly) again with my two youngest sons. I've noticed there are three dynamics: Financial, Athletic and Academic. One of these dynamics is always the primary source for the decision with the other two closely behind. There is no right or wrong on this, just your situation and reality. The challenge is choosing which is the primary for you.

If Financial is your primary,then I would seek schools that would give my daughter D1 athletic scholarships or D3 merit scholarships. To get D3 merit scholarships I've read that you need to be in the top 25% of an incoming freshmen class. Those are the students they want and they are willing to pay for them to keep their numbers up in the higher education marketplace. Positioning in Hi-Ed marketplace is very important.

If her goal is to be the best swimmer she can possibly be, then I would consider the best swimming schools in New England.

If her goal is to be the best student should could possibly be, then I would consider the best honors program in her major.

Once you've identified what is the primary decison criteria it will get easier to select the best school for you situation. I wish you the best of luck.

squidge · 07-13-2012, 11:08 AM

We went through the same thing - D was heavily recruited at the mid-major D1 level but wants to study engineering and luckily had a wise coach who explained to her the realities of D1 athletics. Don't forget that there ARE some academically strong D2 programs as well, depending on your field of study. And some offer a nice mix of athletic and academic money which can get a good amount of aid. D found the perfect intersection of the the 3 criteria fenwaysouth mentions above. We found the NCSA power ranking helpful in our search, they rank schools by academic and athletic indices, and you can view the list by each Division.
NCSA Collegiate Power Rankings

fenwaysouth · 07-13-2012, 11:54 AM

squidge - thanks for sharing the site and list. Good stuff.

invader71 · 07-13-2012, 12:25 PM

I attend UConn and have many friends that are athletes and it seems that the students are not allowed to pursue majors like engineering because of the time commitment needed for the sport. Many of them are undecided so far and the athletic deparment and coaches basically pick their classes for them in order to fit into their practice schedules. Since pre med is not a major but just a set of required classes that can be taken in any major I am sure that will be doable. Also athletes have mandatory study halls which will give you designated time to study and finish your work. Depending on the team most practices are in the early morning or in the afternoon. At UConn the honors program is not what you would expect of an honors college, you take the same large sized classes with everyone with maybe one honors seminar class a semester. You do have priority selection when it comes to classes and housing though.

hangNthere · 07-13-2012, 01:45 PM

It's possible to be part of a top college swim team and participate in the honors program. How well it works for an individual will be dependent on athletic and academic ability, preparation, motivation, goals and the structure of the program. Strong students who have trained at a high level in high school will have a much greater chance of succeeding than those who are weaker students or athletes.

Some high school and club programs train longer and harder than some D1 programs. Although the training may be different, more weight training and less pool time, it won't necessarily be more difficult to handle for those swimmers. On the other hand, someone who swam 20,000 yards per week in high school may be in for a shock once official practices start in college.

The two types of students that I have seen have the most difficulty are those whose academic credentials are much weaker than those of the average student and those students who intend to graduate at or near the top of their class. It is much easier to feel successful if you were in the top quarter of incoming students in terms or grades and standardized scores if your goal is to graduate with a GPA one-half point below the school average than it is for someone who hopes to be valedictorian.

Some schools make it more difficult than others to be a varsity athlete. Practices may conflict with afternoon labs, competition may require missing many school days and teachers won't allow tests to be rescheduled.

Some programs have practice and travel schedules that are more accommodating. At least one Ivy has late afternoon swim practices, so it is possible to have science labs and not miss practice. Ivy dual meets are on weekends and travel time is minimal for a D1 team. The only time that swimmers miss school are for Ivy and national championships.

Several friends and family members have competed at top tier programs in different sports and gone to medical and other graduate schools. It's a huge challenge, but graduate school won't seem so difficult since you will have a lot more time to study, sleep and relax with friends than you did as an undergraduate.