TheGFG

D is being recruited by Ivies as well as non-Ivy D1 schools. Most of the schools on her short list are well into the recruiting process: they've done admissions pre-reads, FA pre-reads, and have set up official visits. These schools will want a decision from D after the official visits or by the ED/EA application date.

But there are other schools who have just now begun the process of finalizing their recruit list. These say they typically conduct official visits later than the Ivies, eg. in January. Since the National Letter of Intent day for D's sport falls in February, this is workable for them but not for D. When D explained her dilemma, the response was: "I don't doubt the Ivies are telling you that's how it works, but if they really want you, they'll wait for you." The non-Ivy D1 school she is most interested in says they'll try to get her in for a visit in the fall if they can, but can't promise.

There's one Ivy that really will wait until the RD round if necessary. But when the others explained how they ooperate, they said that if an athlete hesitates to commit after the visit, they'll move on and give their tip to someone else.

Comments or suggestions?

3xboys

Has she informally visited all the schools?

Does she have them ranked in her own mind yet?

I would not count on any Ivies waiting other than Princeton and Harvard. There are too many qualified, recruitable candidates and the coaches need to fill their rosters and want them filled by the ED date...

Because they don't have EA or ED, Princeton and Harvard lose top recruits every year to other schools by November 1. Thus, they would no doubt be happy to be in the running in the RD round.

Some of this depends on your D's (and your) tolerance for anxiety. My S wanted the whole process done by November 1...

Good luck!

PS Our experience with one D1 Ivy equivalent that had ED was that they were absolutely ready to commit with scholarship offer before November 1. THis was useful - very useful - in dealing with the Ivies.

TheGFG

She informally visited all the schools but one, since it's on the opposite coast. They are all excellent with academic and athletic pros and cons, so D is really counting on the official visit to show her where she would feel the most comfortable. She did rank them using certain criteria, but the results of this ranking conflicted with her "feel" about the schools. Also, the lowest ranked one is the one who'd be the most flexible with commitment, so she'd hesitate to remove it from her list in favor of any "latecomer" schools.

It's funny you say you think Harvard and Princeton would wait. Those are the two schools she felt would be least likely to wait, esp. Princeton whose coach said as much. There are just too many people who would die to go there and supposedly the coach has some 40 kids to chose from at present.

Runners2

We had this dilemma as well and I'm afraid there's no great solution. I felt like it was a little like buying a house - in that you have to decide whether or not to commit to one possibility without knowing everything else that may be out there in the market.

With our S, he had a firm offer from one school that he loved, but possibilities with others on later time tables that he thought he might love as well. The others were going to take significantly longer (they were offering later official visits) and he was afraid he would lose the opportunity at the first school. He took the offer at the first school and passed up the other possibilities - never looked back (although I did, a little)

Of course for some athletes at the top of the ladder, a coach may be willing to wait to the last minute for a commitment. However, a coach told us the following which I think applies to most athletes: "I don't want to pressure you, but you should know that it's my job to fill spots on my roster. If someone else comes along who wants that spot and can do a good job in it, my job is to fill it."

It seems that the task is for your athlete to sort out her priorities in terms of preferences for schools - if one of her top choices is already making a firm offer, then it may be smart to grab it even without having all the other information from other schools. If her top choice is not ready to commit to her, then you'll have to help her assess the risk/benefit ratio of waiting it out - e.g. how likely is it that she'll eventually get the offer that she wants and how large is the risk of losing other offers in the meantime - how much risk is she willing to take in order to hold out for the offer she most prefers? I know of an athlete who lost out on multiple offers by waiting for the one from the dream school that never materialized - by the time she got back to the others schools, they had filled their slots. In other situations, holding out resulted in multiple great offers - so it just depends on how desirable your athlete is to the schools and what the competition is for those spots.

Good luck - this was the stressful part for us! (actually for me, not so much for S!)

Runners2

I agree - For most athletes, I don't think you can count on Harvard and Princeton waiting. Our experience in S's sport was that the majority of Ivy athletic slots were off the table by ED deadlines, regardless of whether or not the schools used ED or not. They all used likely letters to both offer and request commitments from athletes.

TheGFG

I thought that the purpose of NCAA recruiting timelines was to make this process more equitable, and to ensure that schools had to keep to a fairly standardized schedule. This does not seem to be the case!

D has 5 visits already scheduled, with other good choices on the waiting list. My sense is that she's a pretty attractive recruit, but a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush for the colleges, I'm sure. On paper, her top choice is probably the latecomer. They've committed to offering her an official in their first round of recruiting.

Stress is right!!

TheGFG

Another aspect of this process I'm not sure about is this: how often does it happen that after the official visits are over, a school has more kids interested in attending than available spots? What makes me uncertain is the thought that being offered an official visit means nothing; even if you decide they're your first choice, the school could still reject you as a candidate after the visit, right? So what if none of your 5 visit schools materialize into a firm offer?

Runners2

Yes, a school may offer more athletes official visits then they have slots for. In our S's case as I described above, he had a firm offer of a likely letter at one Ivy and then as he was about to accept that offer, another Ivy offered a late official visit. When S inquired about his chances, the coach of that second school said he was bringing in 5 athletes for an official visit for one remaining spot on his team. Thus, S decided those odds weren't great enough to risk his sure thing with the first school.

bessie

Conversely, if the late recruiting coaches wanted your daughter badly enough, they would offer earlier so they wouldn't lose her. Kids get offered early at all different levels of schools all of the time. The coach who told you that is trying to keep his options open because he is probably waiting on another recruit he wants more. Take an offer you have if it is a good fit, but if there is a "late" school you want, then give the coach an opportunity to offer her a spot before you commit. You can call and say, "Acme university would be my first choice, but if there is no offer then I plan to commit to Smith University next week."

TheGFG

Besssie--yeah, that's what I was thinking: if they really wanted her then they'd also accommodate her with an earlier official visit (which they very well may do.) This school may be lying, but they told D she was the best they had for the relevant position, but who knows if that's true? Also, I did wonder if their late "schedule" might be due to disorganization, since other D1 non-Ivies are on more or less the same timing as the Ivies. Could it be an East Coast / West Coast difference, or maybe a league difference?

3xboys

It is true that both Harvard and Princeton give out likelies, but in some sports, not as many letters as they have slots. So, come RD, when many good recruits have been siphoned off by the EA/ED process, H and P still have a significant number of roster slots to fill. In my S's sport they recruit around 15 but only give likely letters to around 3. Your mileage may vary....

3xboys

TheGFG, You wrote: "It's funny you say you think Harvard and Princeton would wait. Those are the two schools she felt would be least likely to wait, esp. Princeton whose coach said as much. There are just too many people who would die to go there and supposedly the coach has some 40 kids to chose from at present."

I don't think they would wait if they were willing to give her a likely letter and she said, "oh, gosh, you're really not my first choice so I need to wait..." but if they were NOT going to give her a likely but were recruiting her nonetheless, she could have a very good chance in the RD round because schools that have ED and EA use up all their likelies in that round..Hope this makes more sense...Not sure I would trade that bird in the bush for one in the hand though!

And you are right, the invitation to an Official Visit can mean nothing. I knew of a kid who was invited on multiple Ivy OFs that did not get support from the coaches in the end. His stats were not great, but the coaches knew that going in...No other big problems - just too many qualified kids...

Re: East coast/west coast. We found that our one D1 non-Ivy west coast school was on the exact same timetable as the Ivies. How else would they compete for the best recruits? I would take everything that "disorganized" D1 coach says with a massive grain of salt.

sleeplessinbost

How does one compare an offer of a scholarship and roster spot (pre-read came back positive) from D1 school that does not issue likely letters to one that does? Is there much more risk in verbal commitment to these schools as opposed to having a likely in hand?

3xboys

I am confident that the written commitment of a likely letter from the Office of Admissions is as reliable as it gets in this business. That said, when we were dealing with our one non-Ivy D1 and S was offered a scholarship and a roster spot, and I asked the coach how reliable his offer was, he told us that they had "never not gotten someone we wanted with SATs over 2100 who applies ED and who we offered a scholarship. We only have a certain amount of money to give and the admisssions office has our list." I don't know for sure since S went with a different offer but I am confident that hs offer was legitimate.

ImCrazy

I don't have much experince with those schools, but is there no national letter of intent or anything? Or is that only for the big D1 universities?