Why isn't Bard on CC's Top LAC List? - Page 2

heyalb · 05-07-2009, 03:02 PM

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More likely they'd never find The College of William and Mary.

Good one!!

(z) · 05-07-2009, 04:39 PM

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But let's face it: Williams is like Amherst is like Vassar is like Wesleyan. Harvard is like Yale is like Princeton is like Penn. UConn is like UMass is like UMich is like UMinn.

But there is no place else like Bard.

Reed? Hampshire? Oberlin?

If you really believe that Wesleyan and Vassar are the same as Williams and Amherst, then those aren't a stretch at all.

Still, I think Bard's exclusion on the Top LACs list has more to do with name recognition than quality. Anyone who does know Bard knows that it's an incredible and rigorous school.

bcash · 05-07-2009, 08:45 PM

^^
Yeah, Reed, Hampshire,Oberlin, Wesleyan, Vassar---each of them is like Bard in some way, especially Reed.

heyalb · 05-08-2009, 12:27 PM

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Reed? Hampshire? Oberlin?

Okay, okay, mea culpa.

But none of them will ever have the "My Old School" claim to fame.

vossron · 05-08-2009, 01:01 PM

No, but Allen Ginsberg's Beats buddies Lew Welch, Philip Whalen and Gary Snyder (Pulitzer Prize) come close!

ctParent2006 · 05-09-2009, 07:18 AM

There is a discussion every so often about the "Top" list. I recall the explanation is that it was setup years ago in a somewhat random fashion and not revisited.

I believe it was explained that no slight was or is intended to Bard or any of the other fine choices not in the "Top" lists.

Plainsman · 06-03-2009, 08:59 PM

Bard: Math SAT, middle 50% = 580 - 690
Reed: " " '' " = 620 -710
Oberlin: " " " " = 620 -710
Hamilton: " " " = 630 -720

Bard: Reading SAT, middle 50% = 640 -720
Reed: " " " " = 660 - 750
Oberlin: " " " " = 650 - 750
Hamilton: " ' " " = 630 - 740

Reading scores are comparable. Where Bard falls short of the others is on the Math SAT. That is likely a partial explanation why Bard is not mentioned with the other three. Bard is also the only one of the four without Phi Beta Kappa honors. Don't know if that's a factor but it could be. Take it up with the college's president.

Proud Dad · 06-03-2009, 09:39 PM

Not really valid data when a school makes SATs optional, is it?

On must assume Plainsman's idea of a top school is based solely on irrelevant data like this. Or is that CC's philosophy. Probably why you don't see many students from the better "alternative" LACs active on CC.

Best-kept secrets are just that.

Plainsman · 06-03-2009, 10:03 PM

You make a giant leap, Proud Dad. The question was asked why this school or that and not Bard. Like other posters, I'm just trying to help them understand it. I don't really care. I'm just trying to be helpful. But the data is not irrelevant, and Bard isn't the only LAC with optional SATs.

Like it or not, there is a clear correlation between rankings and test scores, and Bard's are very strong. The delta in Math SATs is just enough to drop Bard in many of the rankings below Oberlin and Hamilton, but the Reading scores are just as impressive. You sound extremely defensive and for no good reason. Bard is a great school. It's not a secret.

Proud Dad · 06-03-2009, 10:50 PM

Of course there's a correlation between rankings and test scores! That's the problem.

You're new here. Go do a search that doesn't include just Oberlin and you'll find plenty of useless discussion on the value of rankings and the validity of rankings where standardized tests are heavily weighted in those rankings. Try a search for "Sarah Lawrence" and that will give you a pretty good idea of the sentiment here, at USNews, and from others with a completely different value system. Probably won't sit well for someone with a logical legal mind. It's all about "fit" anyway, not rank. Come the revolution maybe more people will understand.

Peace.

Plainsman · 06-04-2009, 12:28 PM

Proud Dad,

I don't think colleges should be ranked. However, since some insist on doing it, I'm more comfortable with objective criteria than subjective criteria. Otherwise, how a college/university is ranked will have about as much use as opinions on ice cream flavors.

There is just no reason for anyone to be defensive about a great school like Bard. Personally, I'd prefer Bard over the so-called "higher ranked" Williams and a lot of other CC Top Liberal Arts Colleges.

I'm not saying I AGREE with the rankings. I'm simply responding to a couple of earlier posters who wanted to know why Bard wasn't on the Top LACs list on CC. Again, I don't think colleges should be ranked at all.

I don't see any daylight between your opinion and mine.

BrainCramp · 06-04-2009, 01:12 PM

I don't know Bard (sounds great). I am not much into numbers either, but a couple I try to pay attention to are: % graduating in 4 years and sophomore retention. Assuming the numbers are correct on UCAN network, Bard has 67% graduating in 4 years and 88% sophomore retention. Without looking up other numbers, these are most likely very low in comparison to the LAC's that made the top list. For example, two LACs that are also not listed as top on cc: Skidmore and Union have 77/78% graduating in 4 and 93/94% returning sophomores.

vossron · 06-04-2009, 01:23 PM

Brain, when you do this, check to see where you are in a given school's stat range. If you're at the high end, grad and retention rates are likely irrelevant for you.

CamelMan21 · 06-20-2009, 01:21 AM

I wouldn't read too deeply into this list. Its fairly arbitrary. For example, why is Whitman College on the list? Fine school, but not nationally known.