irvinemom

OK, I know that having a "Top xxx List" of anything can be somewhat arbitrary. But of everything that I've read about Bard and its rigorous academics, excellent faculty, etc., it seems that this school, in many ways, is an equal to the majority of colleges in CC's so-called "top liberal arts colleges" list.

So, I wonder why Bard is still excluded? And who makes these decisions anyway?

JoeBobHalley

US News, mostly. And the Princeton Review.

Alumni giving and the size of the endowment play roles in the rankings.

Here's a list with Bard relatively close to the top:

Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report

hudsonvalley51

Bard's rise among the ranks of the nation's LACs has been so tied to the career of its President Leon Botstein that it will be fascinating to see what transpires after his retirement. No doubt the Board of Trustees is a very different group of people than those who served during the days of Reamer Kline. But how much of Bard's transformation has been due to shared leadership between President and Board and how much has been due overwhelmingly to Botstein's brilliance?

heyalb

Tufts isn't on CC's Top Universities list. And they invented Tufts Syndrome ferchrissake!! And CC put Kenyon and Grinnell on the top LACs. Both fine schools, no doubt, but up there with Williams and Wesleyan? Not sure what their motivation is, irvinemom.

On the other hand, not one of those top schools has L & T (only program of its kind in the U.S.). Not one of those top schools has the IDP admissions (only admissions program of its kind in the U.S.).

Not one of those top schools can claim the kind of rigor in and emphasis on the sciences and the arts and languages that Bard can.

And ---- here's the best part ---- not one of those top schools has Leon Botstein.

I agree with JoeBobHalley (great name, BTW) in that alumni giving and endowment size give the appearance of a less-splashy school.

But let's face it: Williams is like Amherst is like Vassar is like Wesleyan. Harvard is like Yale is like Princeton is like Penn. UConn is like UMass is like UMich is like UMinn.

But there is no place else like Bard. That's what I call splash.

JoeBobHalley

I like my name, too. Thanks.

BTW, IMO, no one who opts for Bard could go wrong attending any of the other schools you listed, and probably 100 other ones. If not more. There are quite a few absolutely terrific colleges in America.

A huge problem, IMO, especially among high school seniors, is the "I HAVE TO get into my first choice school or my life is over" syndrome. The reality is, if the student has been careful in assembling a list of similar schools, any one of them would probably turn out to be great. There are fascinating and brilliant kids at all the schools in the list I linked up in my earlier post, life-changing professors, most have beautiful campuses...

Seen objectively, it's impossible to know before the fact that ANY particular college, including Harvard or Princeton, or Bard, is the best place for a particular student. Whether the school chosen is the right school, a good fit, is something the student finds out after the fact, as freshman year unfolds.

irvinemom

I was told by someone that Mr. Botstein is committed to Bard for many years to come, based on his contract with the college & board. But, I cannot remember when his contract expires and is up for renewal...

Also, 100% agree with JoeBobHalley's post. My D was considering two other schools besides Bard, and she had a tough time deciding because all three shared similar traits. She would've been happy with any of her 3 choices. But it came down to personal "fit" and what she wanted out of a college, and Bard came out on top in the end.

nastynate0315

That has actually always bothered me. Normally I don't put too much emphasis on rankings but come on CC what are you thinking?

Maybe we could ask the mods to reconsider???

lilygraces

I've been wondering about that lately, too.

And Leon is definitely staying at Bard for awhile. The man has been working as a college president since he was 23. Plus, my dad would be a little hesitant about sending my brother and me to Bard if we weren't going to get Leon's signature on our diplomas much like my father did when he was at Franconia. My dad likes keeping things in the family. lol.

JoeBobHalley

Another important factor is yield percentage. The higher it is, the more prestigious a school is perceived to be. The lower it is, the more the school looks like kids can take it or leave it.

Bard has about a 27% acceptance rate, but only about one in three from that 27% actually enrolls at Bard.

For comparison purposes, Harvard accepts about 8% of its applicants, but about 79% of those accepted enroll there.

Many other factors figure in vis a vis rankings, of course, but yield, I understand, is an important one.

Proud Dad

Are there any schools on that list that make SATs optional?

bcash

^^
Yeah, quite a few do. Actually the Maine schools are leaders in the SAT Optional "Movement". (Bowdoin made SATs optional in 1969)

And, to be fair, Williams/Amherst are not like Vassar/Wesleyan; Havard is not like Yale is not like Princeton is definitely not like Penn. Each of these schools has very distinctive qualities and characters.

The way I see it, the Top LAC list on this site has more to do with how those schools are traditionally perceived. I don't think that list is entirely based on US News rankings. Reed is ranked 50ish now by US News (they refuse to submit data), but is still on that list, because its reputation for rigorous academics has long been established. Bard's profile only started to rise in the 90s. There was an article in the NYTimes about the transformation of Bard from an "art school" with only 100,000 endowment to a more well-rounded school that offers unique academic opportunities and competes with Vassar/Wesleyan for students.

Proud Dad

Perception or interest from CC "members" seems to drive the link lists. For decades it's been pretty much a self-fulfilling prophesy! I just consider it a "most searched" list and—since the Ivy League gets its own page—more a reaction to what most frequently drives people in college searches. You'll also notice some of the colleges with the worst participation on CC are often schools that kids find out about and attend without concern for what that name means to them or their parents. Some might even equate it to whether you want folks to notice that you're wearing a Rolex or just want something that tells time intuitively and without the annual maintenance. "Name" schools are often worn like bling or jewelry. Doesn't make them bad schools, of course, but it does put them at the top of the heap for college searches when "fit" isn't a part of what's being considered. Maybe there's room for a link list along the lines of "Schools That Change Lives" that could coexist with a category much less useful like "Ivy League"? If you don't know what schools are in the Ivy league and need a separate link page beyond "Top College" to find those schools, should such lame selection processes be encouraged by making it even easier to make college selection a lazy process that requires no thought or self-examination?

But then there's nothing wrong with a hidden gem. I wish people would quit moving to where I live, too.

heyalb

Well said, Proud Dad. It's always better to be a leader than a follower, anyway.

I don't see why CC has to divvy everything up to begin with.....you have your Ivies, you have your Top Universities, you have you Top LACs, and you have your alphabetized list.

Instead of making value judgements, why not just have the whole thing alphabetical? Or does that assume that the poor folks who are looking up University of Pennsylvania will have to click twice to find it?

irvinemom

Even if nothing changes on CC's so-called Top Liberal Arts Colleges list, we're doing our small part to show off Bard's name -- just ordered a sweatshirt from their online store :-)

Welcome to Bard College*Bookstore

Proud Dad

More likely they'd never find The College of William and Mary.