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Brown Class of 2018 Regular Decision Applicants

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Replies to: Brown Class of 2018 Regular Decision Applicants

  • annie2018annie2018 Posts: 59Registered User Junior Member
    @SpoolMan

    What I said is what I meant. Check your private message and if you still want to continue this discussion, feel free to.
  • WWWardWWWard Posts: 398Registered User Member
    It is amazing how things have changed over time. Back in my day, there were an over-abundance of qualified white males applying to college, so unfortunately, colleges had to cap the # that they could accept while also trying to mold a well-rounded and diverse freshman class. In those days, being an Asian applicant was never considered a disadvantage.

    Today though, many online and standard articles discuss how Asian or predominantly Asian applicants actually face an anti-hook backlash in terms of college admissions. They are probably the only group that is statistically worse off than the over-achieving, un-hooked white female applicants. Admissions officers at most elite colleges strive to create student bodies that roughly mirror the population as a whole. But the large number of academically qualified Asian or Asian-American applicants genuinely threaten to overwhelm their schools’ student demographics. They thus have no other recourse but to raise the bar for such applicants & cap the # they can accept.

    Fair or not... it means that such applications will be subjected to a higher standard of admission. The cruel reality is that quota's exist... and some groups then have to suffer unfairly.

    URMs must be qualified for admission, but they do gain a slight advantage in the eyes of most admissions offices... to a point - until they locate or accept a sufficient # of them. Qualified white males seem to be relatively neutral in the process these days, neither suffering unfairly or being advantaged. Qualified white females suffer because there are way more than they can accept... so you better have an extra component to your application file. Most such applicants are unhooked, so way too many are turned away. And the qualified Asian applicant seems to suffer the greatest apparent disadvantage. These are the realities... whether any of us like them or not.

  • SpoolManSpoolMan Posts: 274Registered User Junior Member
    Something to think about:
    Wouldn't "raising the bar" for Asian/female white applicants due to the sheer number of qualified applicants from this demographic mean that the Asians/white females at every college "level" (ivy, other elite, selective, somewhat selective etc.) have higher stats (GPA, SAT, ACT) than any other demographic? Not to say that higher stats=smarter, but at any given college, this group would have had to be more competitive in the eyes of the admissions committee than other groups in order to have been admitted. Doesn't this perpetuate the problem of many people thinking that Asians/white females are smarter than other groups?

    While it does have its flaws, I think the way they have it now is the best. While it's harder statistically for Asians/white females to get in (compared to URMs), the performance gap is almost nonexistent. Admitted URMs perform just as well when compared to groups that have the anti-hook.
  • WWWardWWWard Posts: 398Registered User Member
    SpoolMan: I think that you are likely correct on both counts.

    The Asians, Asian-Americans and unhooked white females who do succeed in gaining admission to the most competitive colleges are likely those with superlative credentials. But I am not sure if they necessarily have to have higher stats than any other demographic group. It is certainly more competitive for them... but it is just a super competitive environment all-around. But those would be interesting stats to see...

    From my own personal perspective, which was of course limited only to my own college experience at JHU and to what I heard from peers at other competitive schools, higher stats certainly did not mean smarter. And it also had very little correlation to college performance.

    Ironically, many of the freshman who entered with stellar stats from "feeder" schools did not do well at my university. In fact... there seemed to be a direct inverse correlation between how much someone bragged about where they attended high school and their eventual performance in college. Over-achievers from public high schools continued that trend and did the best at my college. Effort is the key ingredient, and far too many applicants then were simply looking to gain admission and not to maximize the educational component of the college experience. Once you gain admission, college will be what you personally endeavor to make of it. We had a couple students from "feeder" schools who also excelled in college. but they were not the norm... at least during my years there.

    The demographic stereotypes and even the "feeder school" versus others stereotypes break down rapidly though once the college process actually gets underway... at least that was my experience.

    To me, it will always be hard to settle on any admissions system and say that it is best or better. It is way too specific to your individual experience. I remember all too well sitting in front of a Harvard alum who was very direct in telling me that I would not be accepted. He told me that Harvard saw way too many applicants who looked exactly like me. He told me that if I still lived in Idaho, where I was born... or if I were only Hispanic or African-American or even just female, there might be a chance... but that I stood zero chance of gaining admission as things really were. In the end, he was right. I was rejected by both Yale and Harvard, the only two Ivies that I had applied to.

    Ironically, my senior year in high school was the first year ever that a student from there got accepted to an Ivy. He was an URM who played three sports, and accepted the admissions offer, but he eventually dropped out and did not graduate from that Ivy League college. But that is just one example, and I am highly confident that the vast majority of all students admitted do well at the Ivy they eventually attend. And these days, especially, it is so very competitive, that even those who gain admission via any form of "hook" likely end up doing well.

    In the case of Brown, I doubt that they will admit anyone who is incapable of performing well there. Again, it comes back to the individual and how they approach the opportunity being afforded to them.

    My D is an unhooked, over-achieving white female, so we are not all that confident in the process. This is also why she already has two safety school decisions squared away and will be waiting to hear 13 more decisions. Brown remains her top choice, but we understand the odds.

    Best of luck to all of this years RD applicants. And to those accepted... seize the day wherever you matriculate. Make the most of the opportunity. You owe it to yourself, to your families and to the 1000s of kids who will not be admitted on March 27th... take advantage of the opportunity for them and yourself.



  • SpoolManSpoolMan Posts: 274Registered User Junior Member
    @WWWard Well said. Admitted applicants really do have to understand and take advantage of the great opportunity given. If not for yourself, at least do it for the thousands of kids could have got the spot but was rejected.
  • raindropletraindroplet Posts: 39Registered User Junior Member
    Yesterday I mailed off some supplemental materials and a letter to my admissions officer since I was deferred- I can only hope they help. I've heard my area's officer rejects the most applicants out of any Brown admissions officer. *gulp* Hopefully I didn't annoy her with the stuff.
  • CelangCelang Posts: 17Registered User New Member
    Hey there :3 When do applications come out again?

    Oh yeah, and do you know how fast they update the application status thing? Because it says my mid year report card isn't in but my school says they've sent it in already. They sent it in around Jan 13.
  • arwarwarwarw Posts: 624Registered User Member
    I'm not sure you can pin selectivity on just one characteristic like white female or asian. I think a white female from a south Alabama public school is going to be evaluated quite differently than a girl from a Connecticut prep school. The Asian son of a Gulf Coast shrimper is going to be looked at differently than the Asian son of physicians in the Bay area.

    Also, stats just get you to the table. Brown could have a much higher SAT average if they so chose. Look at the acceptance threads here and you may notice patterns. I noticed the accepted students tended to have unique and interesting stories and they generally emphasized they had spent a LOT of time on their essays and application.
  • WWWardWWWard Posts: 398Registered User Member
    How much do elite colleges care about their Yield Rates? Is that generally important to them?

    For example, my daughter's current top three schools in order are Brown 56%... Princeton 65%... and Stanford 73%. We were surprised to see Brown's yield percentage so low... but even more surprised to see some others: Northwestern 38%, Duke 42%, Dartmouth 48%, UChicago 46% and Vanderbilt 40%.

    Brown can simply accept my daughter and raise their yield percentage of course... lol... but some of these lower #s were really surprising. And I wonder if getting that # up is of any real importance to top schools or not. It clearly must impact the #s they can extend offers to initially.
  • daswagnationdaswagnation Posts: 26Registered User New Member
    My friend just got in to BROWN!!! IDK how but he showed me the letter!!!! YAYY. Didn't know they would come out so soooonnn!
  • matrixsurgeonmatrixsurgeon Posts: 795Registered User Member
    @daswagnation
    Your friend probably just received a likely letter from Brown University. That is a marvelous accomplishment and there is probably alot to merit that! Congrats to him. Unfortunately those only go out to coveted athlete recruits and top "recruited" academic students (won significant awards, achievements on national/international stage, etc) which barely make up a few percent of the acceptances that Brown (and other other top schools) gives.
  • daswagnationdaswagnation Posts: 26Registered User New Member
    You trying to say I'm un-athletic?! b/c i'm currently at the Sochi Olympics for bobsledding. #bestsportever
    Also it's not a likely. Likely's come only for ED apps. He got a legit letter or so he said.
  • matrixsurgeonmatrixsurgeon Posts: 795Registered User Member
    edited February 6
    @daswagnation
    How was my post in any way offensive commenting on your athleticism? I was simply stating the truth about likely letters and what they are used for. And to be honest, in all the research I have done and how much I have talked to people experienced in college admissions at these top schools, the "letter" that your friend received is just another form of a "likely letter" because a likely letter is still a letter. It is just a unofficial acceptance as long as you don't do something drastically bad. Likelys do not "come only for ED apps." They are in both RD and ED for most of the top schools.

    BTW, congrats on the Sochi Olympics. Good luck...
    Post edited by matrixsurgeon on
  • arwarwarwarw Posts: 624Registered User Member
    edited February 6
    "How much do elite colleges care about their Yield Rates? Is that generally important to them?"

    I think colleges pay very close attention to their own annual yield rate because they set yield targets to manage class size. They probably also look at trends, as they are always exploring how they can capture the students they chose. Is financial aid adequate to compete? Are they lacking in course offerings, etc.

    As far as yield as a metric to compare against other colleges, I'm not sure they really care so much. The yield number is so dependent on early decision admits and wait list management, it's hard to compare one school's yield to another without really scrubbing the numbers. Also, I think yield has been dropped as a USNWR ranking criteria, so the colleges that do have ranking-driven policies, would no longer need to worry so much about yield - I might be wrong on that.

    Having said that, I think a 40% plus yield rate is pretty dang high considering the applicants who are accepted to one highly selective schools are also likely to be accepted to another, and are also likely getting multiple scholarship offers from lower tier schools.

    In Brown's case, I think their upward trend in yield correlates with improvements in their financial aid program. Also, I think Brown's application supplement does a pretty good job of identifying kids with a genuine interest in and understanding of the University. I don't think Brown wants a kid who applied because of some romantic notion of the Ivy League, and then is disappointed with the realityof Brown. So, I think they may tend to select kids who aren't as likely to leap frog to the higher ranked school. Just my opinion.
    Post edited by arwarw on
  • WWWardWWWard Posts: 398Registered User Member
    arwarw: Thanks.

    As you stated, many applicants are accepted to a # of top schools, and then they have to make that tough decision. What the lower yield rates (at least compared to Harvard, for example) shows is that the accepted # is at least quite a bit higher than the admitted #... and that does allow a lucky few to be among those getting that choice among a handful of top schools. Here is a sampling among the school's my daughter is awaiting a decision from:

    Brown 2759-1539 9%
    Princeton 1963-1285 7%
    Stanford 2423-1765 6%
    Northwestern 5567-2115 14%
    Duke 4077-1714 13%
    Penn 3935-2461 12%
    Dartmouth 2337-1117 10%
    Columbia 2362-1415 7%
    UChicago 3340-1527 9%
    Vanderbilt 4034-1608 13%

    Of course, with the massive amount of applications to these schools ( in excess of 30K in many cases), it is still a daunting task to gain admission in the first place.
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