dcircle

the perception that brown has an edge isn't limited to california. it's also anecdotally true of manhattan, boston, d.c. (of the places i've lived)

moreover, the P.R. survey that ranks brown as the 6th toughest to get into and dartmouth 15th, is based on a nationwide survey of high school student opinions
The Toughest to Get Into: The New 2008 "Best 366 Colleges" Rankings on The Princeton Review

lastly, it's interesting that in a survey of students on CC, brown is ranked first in the number of times it was listed as the "favorite ivy" and dartmouth is ranked last.
Your FAVORITE Ivy?

there is undeniably a general perception that brown is the better place to be

Kristina

I totally thought that too, until I visited Dartmouth. Gahh, I'm so torn :/

slipper1234

I'd argue otherwise. I've lived in Boston, DC, New York, and Chicago and I'd argue the opposite. Dartmouth is looked at more "solid" than Brown which gets an unfair bad wrap for its open curriculum.

As for your CC observation, I can throw Brown under the bus for every post you try to throw Dartmouth there. For example:

College Confidential Forum Ranking of American Undergraduate Schools

And don't forget that Dartmouth places higher on every graduate placement list, does better with recruiters, etc.

Once again, I love both these schools. But convincing someone to pick Brown because of a non-existent difference in "perception" is wrong. Telling them to pick Brown because they love it is another thing.

wolfmanjack

"I've lived in Boston, DC, New York, and Chicago and I'd argue the opposite. Dartmouth is looked at more "solid" than Brown which gets an unfair bad wrap for its open curriculum."

then..

"convincing someone to pick Brown because of a non-existent difference in 'perception' is wrong."

slipper1234

What I'm saying is that for every opinion on which is "better" there's another one that is the opposite, and therefor in the end this shouldn't be a determining factor at all. The last statement is the main point.

dcircle

i never said to pick brown because of a perception, i'm merely pointing out what the fairly irrefutable perception is.

your link is unconvincing slipper, so i'll let it speak for itself.

moreover, your claims that dartmouth does better with recruiters or "every" grad placement list is wholly unsubstantiated. brown does better with some recruiters, dartmouth does better with others. same with grad schools--for every metric in the WSJ ranking there is a counter-metric. undisputably, however, brown does overwhelming better in placement into presitgious fellowships like the rhodes scholarship.

by the way, i think the B vs D argument is a fun rivalry, but do not at all endorse choosing a school based on any of this. to kristina, as agonizing as your choice is, it will soon be made and you can't possibly go wrong!

slipper1234

I'm arguing against your irrefutable perception.

Also none of my statements on recruiting/ grad placement are unsubstantiated. Dartmouth and Brown are both northeast schools competing for the same grad schools. The WSJ main complaint, regional bias, doesn't apply. Also, UVA law, Wharton, Columbia Business, Yale law, and others publish lists. Per capita, Dartmouth does better. As for recruiting, here's finance:

Private Equity Firms & Universities: What’s the Relationship? | BankersBall

2007 list of BB Summer Associate class by colleges | WallStreetOasis.com

Top 5 Undergraduate Schools for IBanking

There's a very real chance Brown kids are more likely to apply for fellowships, while Dartmouth kids are looking to go to grad school or get a job.


Anyway I sort of feel Clinton/ Obama about this. I love both places. As I thin k dcircle and I agree, choose for fit.

dcircle

first of all, slipper you need to go to sleep. (i guess i do too...)

secondly, the links you list are subject to the same selction bias you cite for fellowships (since they are based on aggregate representation). in other words, perhaps dartmouth kids are more likely to apply for private equity jobs, in which case...

-Dartmouth students are more likely to seek soul-less banking jobs
-Brown students are more likely to seek save-the-world fellowships

sounds about right to me

slipper1234

One last jab-

Dartmouth News - Dartmouth named number one in Peace Corps participation in the small schools category - 01/30/06

Dartmouth kids want to save the world too.

SBmom

^^^you guys are funny.

Kristina, follow your heart!

That's what any self-respecting Bruno would say.

twothousandeight

"That's what any self-respecting Bruno would say"

And Napoleon Dynamite :-)

lowfatsourcreme

Hey, I have this same decision to make. How would you compare (a) the political science departments at the schools and (b) the intellectual character of the student body/"nerdiness"?

ohmadre

You are ALL posting your D v. B questions in the Brown only forum and expecting to get impartial comparisons about social atmosphere and academic strength from students who have only had one experience, and whose knowledge of the alternate experience, with maybe the exception of dcircle, is only hearsay. In other words, you want confirmation of your inclination - if you wanted a straight comparison you would post these questions on both boards.

This indicates to me that you prefer Brown and that on one level, you no longer have a real decision to make.

But I want to tell you that if you find you have to 'settle' for D because of financial constraints, you should understand that:

a) B does not have a lock on all the nerdy, cool kids and is not devoid of prestige-consciousness. Thousands and thousands of the same applicants are applying to the same schools after all and the student body at D is not so different from B or from HYPCCP for that matter. On the other hand, especially for those who state they attended Dimensions and really enjoyed the sincere friendliness and interest of the students, you should know that wasn't just for show. D too has interesting, nerdy, and quirky students -all across the board. As an example in today's paper:
TheDartmouth.com | Senior fellow Nasser ‘08 explores Einstein’s life through play

b) Lack of frats does not equate to lack of drinking, partying, etc, even to excess, nor does their presence mean that drinking, especially to excess, is your fate and your only social option - doesn't mean that there are not a good number of students who don't go in for that at D, and who do not feel marginalized at all - its a pretty inclusive place.

You all would not be posting on the Brown forum instead of the Dartmouth forum for the purpose of gaining helpful information for this decision if your gut instinct was not Brown, so I am not trying to sway you to Dartmouth but rather, to say that if you have to make decision in favor of a better financial package - you will not suffer the loss of an amazing academic experience.

I hope it works the way you want it to but once you finally make the agonizing decision, never look back.

wolrab

ohmadre, I have mainly been posting here because this is where the question got asked and the thread got started. I have actually been pm'ing with advocates of each school. My son is down to the wire with his B-D decision.

Can you say more about the frats/drinking/social scene thing at D? I mean, even a very pro-D alum told me he wishes the scene there were less frat-party-based, etc., and that Hanover has little to offer. (On the top side, it has the outdoors activities.) Tell me, what do students who are not interested in partying and drinking do after dark on weekends? (Can you get a couple of others to post here about that?)

Also, it's my sense that although some really like the quarter system, others say it feels rushed and that it interrupts friendships. Any comment?

Thanks for your help.

slipper1234

Hey wolrab,

Lol I guess I'm the token D responder. A lot of the non-partying after dark activities involve things like movies at the nugget, ice skating, climbing up the firetower, Collis events, formals (which are actually really fun), club activities, and general goofing off with friends. Dartmouth holds concerts and people generally hang out all over campus. There are lots of beautiful places to "chill" and hang out. But the truth is that at any college, including Brown, a great majority of the students will be drinking.

Actually I've found that city schools are even more drinking oriented than rural campuses, its just under the radar because students do it off campus (which IMO is much less fun). This is why I left Columbia. I've found that in NYC, for example, life revolves around drinking whether its dinner or at a bar because there is little social space to do anything else.

As for the quarter system, personally I felt the upside greatly outweighed the downside. Sophomore summer more than makes up for any friendship interruption, its almost like getting to spend a term at a camp with your best friends. The access to internships is incredible, and the access to multiple study abroad is unique and really can offer a tremendous experience.

But Brown might be a better fit. Most of the time I spent at Brown I was drinking, but Thayer street does offer much more variety in terms of restaurants than Hanover does.