a new 'ask a recent graduate your bucknell questions' thread...

[CollegeMom08]

Hi. My D was accepted at Bucknell and is very interested in the performing arts opportunities and particiapting in performing ensembles, band/wind ensemble, choir, etc. She is an All-State instrumentalist and an All-East/All-State vocalist. What is available at Bucknell? How would you "rate" the ensembles/faculty as compared to other similar-sized liberal arts colleges? Can anyone participate or do you need to be a music major?

Thanks.

CollegeMom08

[JustaMom5465]

Satn, thanks! She has pretty much decided on ChemE. What are your thoughts on the Eng-Mgt program? Worth the extra year? Worth the extra work?

Good to know about the Mgt 101 course though as it looks to have an effect on the rest of her scheduling. Does that mean she would probably just have the standard engineering sequence courses for the first semester (ie, no Mgt classes 1st semester?)

CollegeMom - my D is also interested in the music ensembles. She would like to continue to play flute - not as a music major, but just for fun. Can anyone comment on how competitive it is to get in to PepBand, or an ensemble for a non-music major, and the time committment involved in belonging?

[ericatbucknell]

okay, mike, now were getting somewhere.

1. The CompSci dept...

bucknell has no phd students, period. it also has no masters students in computer science. so when research is being conducted (and all faculty ARE active researchers), on-site help HAS to be provided by undergraduates and undergraduates only. now, is as much research being conducted in the bucknell computer science department as at a larger research university? no. is the research that is being done significant? yes. people with phds from top programs like carnegie mellon (stephen guattery) and illinois (daniel hyde) typically dont perform insignificant research. is necessarily highly significant? no. but mit and cmu dont only put out highly significant research research, either.

and you are correct that research is an important part of a graduate school application. however, what graduate programs look for is someone who has been actively involved in the research process, who understands how research really works. in other words, an applicant with significant roles in perhaps less 'important' or 'expensive' research will be viewed favorably in the process to someone with less significant roles in more 'important' or 'expensive' projects. (obviously, being brilliant and getting important experience in a major project is preferable to both.) there will be opportunities for valuable experience at all of the schools you are considering. its the less valuable experience in larger projects and small chance of valuable experience in larger projects that you wont find as often at a liberal arts college.

on the theme of research, also keep in mind the opportunities for summer research experiences for undergraduates (reus). funded by the nsf, theyre a way for undergraduates to become further involved in the research process and are taken by students at lacs and large universities alike. there are programs in many fields, including specific topics like machine learning.

anyway, this is why i mentioned the graduate student at illinois in my previous post. if bucknell did not provide a strong undergraduate education in computer science, it simply would not have been possible for a bucknell computer science major to get into one of the top phd programs in the world two years ago. (the new usnews graduate school peer assessment rankings put illinois at 5, ahead of cornell, princeton, washington and georgia tech.)

last, on your funding issue, its going to be pretty difficult for you to get $5,000 to conduct research at any school. nsf grant moneys are typically pretty tightly controlled and as a result $5,000 in university cash would be difficult to procure (without acquiring grant funds of your own) even as a graduate student. some funds are available for undergraduate research at bucknell, however.

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on the issue of spcific faculty knowledge areas, beyond my previous suggestion, youre going to need to email someone within the department and ask. i simply dont know how much knowledge any of the faculty have in ai.

in terms of courses, many of the things listed are research-based projects that you would complete as an upperclassmen. 'individual study' is individual study in a specific field (typically of your choice) with a professor. 'topics' courses are advanced courses with focii as chosen by the faculty, and are sometimes taught as an extension of a professors current research.

what i do know about machine learning is that an undergraduate course in the subject is going to be of somewhat limited utility because few undergraduates are going to have the mathematical background to make sufficient (or at least practical) use of the specific processes involved, as not only does one need a solid background in logic and statistics, but solid fundamental knowledge in computational and algorithmic theory as well. so if you think youre truly going to have both the computer science and mathematical necessities out of the way by your junior year, you may want to consider a school with available graduate courses for undergraduates. however, that is going to be the exception far more then the rule.

The options of what I can do when I graduate with a CompSci major.

if you want to go into quantitative finance, its not going going to happen with a bachelors degree from computer science from ANY college or university. simply going into finance is a different issue, but the fact is that most computer science majors do not want to work in finance, and as such, few do. you fill find some bucknell computer science majors in finance at goldman sachs and others if you look through the link ilmor provided, however. so it does happen.

if quantitative finance is your goal, though, your best bet would probably be a phd in applied mathematics from a top graduate program. second to that, youre going to want a phd in quantitative finance, operations research, focused computer science (such as the cmu machine learning program) et cetera. a 'third best' option would be one of the many math department-based masters programs in financial math/financial engineering/etc that are popping up at top schools around the country. that bucknell graduates get into top graduate programs means that a bucknell degree is respected in the academic community, and as such, can get you where you need to go for graduate school.

Bucknell's proximity to cities.

in my experience, bucknell students do pretty much the same things for fun that students going to colleges in cities do for fun. they hang out, go to parties, go out to eat, attend concerts, et cetera. they just happen to not pay city prices to do so. the only other difference is the lack of high-cost shopping, if thats your thing.

does it get a bit old after a while? sure, youll have your moments. but people in cities tend to get sick of not being able to breath clean air, or see stars, or actually drive somewhere. so it tends to even out. some leave ready to take a job in the big city and others (like a good friend of mine) transfer in from nyu. either way, i know most bucknell alumni wouldnt trade their experiences for anything.

[ericatbucknell]

I know that CE is a new program there. Do you know if they are planning to add it in the next couple of years?

i would be surprised if a masters program were established that quickly. a program needs to be pretty solidly established to support a masters option, and since the strength of the undergraduate department is going to come first, i just dont see a brand new department being in a position for gravy (a masters program) within a few years.

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thanks, ilmor and satn, for jumping in on the engineering management (and other) questions. the more input on any question, the better, so please jump in whenever you have a thought.

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how is BU in the humanities? For example, history is a bread-and-butter degree at most LACs but it appears to be rather small at BU. How about study abroad?

its somewhat difficult to compare the size of history departments at various schools because its a field where dual-appointments and cross-departmental teaching is common. as such, one school could claim a faculty twice the size of another but provide the same opportunities.

in terms of the number of students in bucknells history department, it compares favorably with most top lacs, graduating more history majors than schools like amherst, swarthmore, pomona, haverford, wesleyan, grinnell, claremont mckenna and hamilton. in terms of absolute opporfunities, im not in a position to comment, but i can say that bucknells history faculty, like most history faculties (since there are so many history phds and so few jobs) is extremely stong. the best (and hardest) course i took at bucknell was taught by a now-retired history professor and current faculty like julian bourg, john enyeart, james goodale, martha verbugge and richard weller come very highly recommended.

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i have to actually do something now, so comments on the rest of humanities, travel abroad, fine arts and whatnot (hopefully) later tonight.

[Panhandlegal]

In response to Kaleigh's question about Choice dorms, we had a family member with similar thoughts on drinking, etc at Bucknell and she chose to live in a Residential College. She was concerned about the negative labelling related to the choice program and somebody she met at her overnight suggested that res colleges offered a type of compromise because those kids are usually academic and have level heads on their shoulders--not huge partiers. She didn't have any issues with noise from partying, etc and met a super group of kids with similar interests. They seem to do a good job with the res college program. Your D should look into it..........Eric, do you agree??

[one2go]

There are quite a few residential colleges and I think each would attract very a different student. Currently: arts, environmental, global, humanities, social justice, society & tech. For next year there is a new one: languages & cultures. My daughter has heard "Smith" is a good dorm. Any idea which of the res colleges might be in Smith? Also, any idea WHY she heard Smith is the place to live. I am afraid it might be one of the party dorms.

[ericatbucknell]

...to quickly finish my post on the humanities:

the rest of the humanities departments at bucknell (and any top liberal arts college) are going to be strong for the same reason the history department is strong. tenure-track jobs in these fields are hard to snag, especially at the highly selective universities where most humanities graduates want to teach.

there is a real strength in both poetry and creative writing, though, as bucknell is home to both the stadler center for poetry (with a prestigious poet-in-residence program) and the prestigious creative writing residency, sponsored by alum philip roth.

[ericatbucknell]

Hi. My D was accepted at Bucknell and is very interested in the performing arts opportunities and particiapting in performing ensembles, band/wind ensemble, choir, etc.

to address the faculty question first, bucknell, which has a professional, audition-based music program (based in a beautiful new building), is definitely going to have faculty qualified to help your daughter further her musical studies.

in terms of opportunities, bucknell has a traditional symphonic band, orchestra and several formal choirs, in addition to smaller instrumental and formal vocal ensembles and a capella groups. as far as i know, all groups are open to non-music majors, though that may not be true of some of the smaller (more selective) formal groups, like chamber ensembles.

in terms of the quality of these groups vis-a-vis other liberal arts colleges, i cant definitively say. however, i would have to think that bucknells larger size and the presence of a moderately selective music program would put it ahead of many smaller schools.

anecdotally, my freshman roommate (an engineer) was involved in both symphonic band and the pep band his freshman year. he left the symphonic band after fall semester as it did require a moderate time commitment he no longer wanted to make, but stayed in the very informal (and i mean VERY informal) pep band all four years. further, several of my friends were involved in various choral and a capella groups. time commitment there seemed to be moderate, but i can say that they loved being involved in their a capella groups. members tend to become really good friends.

if you do have any more specific questions, i wouldnt be afraid to send an email to dr william kenny at bands@bucknell.edu.

[ericatbucknell]

In response to Kaleigh's question about Choice dorms, we had a family member with similar thoughts on drinking, etc at Bucknell and she chose to live in a Residential College.... Your D should look into it..........Eric, do you agree??

woohoo, someone got my name correct! (yes, my name is ERIC.)

anyway, of course i agree! i made the same suggestion in my original reply.

a suggestion: if youre on the fence about 'choice' you may also want to consider the residential colleges, which tend to draw fewer hard partiers in addition to more academically-minded students, who usually are pretty outgoing. if theres one that fits, it would probably serve as a solid compromise.

but to clarify my point, i really wouldnt be worried about some sort of stigma attached to 'choice' residents. as i said, thats not to say that there isnt one, but rather that its not big enough to justify not living in substance-free housing.

again, what i would consider are potential hallmates (and roommates). 'choice' students often are going to be there for religious reasons and often are going to be a bit 'nerdier' than the average bucknellian. as a bit of a nerd myself, theres nothing wrong with that. and not everyone in 'choice' housing is going to be religious or a nerd. its just something to think about in the context of someones overall social preferences, especially when ones thinks about how many first year friends typically are made on the freshman hall.

[ericatbucknell]

My daughter has heard "Smith" is a good dorm. Any idea which of the res colleges might be in Smith? Also, any idea WHY she heard Smith is the place to live. I am afraid it might be one of the party dorms.

smith is a good dorm, probably the second best freshman dorm on campus. im not sure its a party dorm, however, as, unless things have changed, freshmen dont have any input in the dorm selection process.

i will say, however, that the smith TRIPLES, the largest freshmen rooms on campus, DO tend to be the site of more than their share of parties. that tends to be true of all triples on campus, though. so if someone is hesitant about living in party central, he or she would be advised to not indicate preference for a triple on the housing survey.

[satn87]

one2go -

Residential College students live with other students from their college in either Smith Hall (located on Seventh Street) or in McDonnell Hall (located next to Swartz Hall).

Students who enroll in the Global, Environmental, Social Justice and Society & Technology Colleges will live in Smith Hall. Students who enroll in the Languages and Cultures, Humanties and Arts Colleges will live in the McDonnell Hall.

[satn87]

I currently live in Smith and also lived there during my freshman year. Eric is right about the triples/quads being party centers but that also depends on the people who live there. Based on that, doubles can get noisy too. Each floor of Smith is divided into 4 wings = A,B,C,D. So the first floor has 4 halls = Smith 1A, 1B, 1C, and 1D, and so on for the 2nd and 3rd floor. Some halls are noisier than others - my freshman year, 3D was the noisiest one on the 3rd floor, 3C, where i lived - not so much.

A lot of people who live in Smith turn out to be engineering majors (who have more studying to do) so its not uncommon to find people walking about at 2 am or so like its mid-day. Anyone who does party also has to study hard.

Smith has a computer lab, and all dorms don't have that - i don't think mcdonnell does. the rooms and bathrooms are nice. Rooms are all air-conditioned and relatively big. Smith is definitely one of the best places to live. the only thing is that for engineering majors, it's a bit far from classes and that entails a walk uphill during the morning for 8 am classes. on the otherhand, Smith is closer to off-campus restaurants and shops, than for example Mcdonnell.

[satn87]

One more thing - I wouldn't generalize Smith as a party dorm. sometimes some halls are noisy, or some rooms are noisy and sometimes halls and rooms are quiet. its not really different from other dorms in that respect.

[satn87]

JustaMom - the first year schedule for a 5-year eng-mgmt student in chemical engineering looks like this:

First semester = ENGR 100, MATH 201, PHYS 211, First year english course.

Second semester = CHEM 221, CHEM.ENG 101 (No credit), MATH 202, ENGR 240, ENGR 215(half credit), elective.

For the 1st year, you have four 1-credit courses each. ENG 100 is the big seminar one- basically, within ENGR 100, you are allowed to try 3 sub-courses in 3 different majors with the goal of helping you to make up your mind about which type of engineering you want to do. My 3 seminars were in Electrical, Mechanical and Civil engineering - i am now studying electrical. Engineering students have to declare their major at the end of 1st semester freshman year = so that's what ENGR 100 is for. The engineering major that you come in with to Bucknell is usually easily changeable if you want to, when you're declaring at the end of 1st semester.

One thing to note is that if your daughter enrolls in a Res. college, the res. college seminar will replace the english course for the 1st semester. I was in a res.college myself so i took the english course my second semester. But i do know someone who is taking english his 1st semester of sophomore year. So i would still recommend taking mgmt 101 2nd semester , freshman year as the elective. The english course could probably be pushed back to sophomore year, if your daughter does join a res. college. Her advisors would probably understand that her scheduling needs more consideration than a normal 4-year student's.

Scheduling the management and engineering classes for the 5-year students have been an issue, according to my advisor.

[satn87]

for the 5-year engr-mgmt program, you basically get 8 extra electives (1 extra year = 4 courses each semester, 8 courses total = 8 extra electives) in addition to your engineering schedule. the course schedule for the 5-year program lists eight more electives in the engineering schedule, which has been expanded to 5 years. you know which 8 courses you have to take for the mgmt degree and you work them into your electives as you go along.

MGMT 160 (accounting), MGMT 101, MGMT 220 (law) have no prerequisites.
MGMT 370 needs MGMT 160 first. MGMT 312 and 380 needs MGMT 101 first. MGMT 319 needs MGMT 370 and 380 first. remember that unless you do 101, you can't do 380, and so can't do 319. the eighth course is the elective and that depends on what you want to take.

I thought a business-engineering degree would definitely be worth it in today's technology-driven industry, so i went for it. you have both skill sets this way and expanded employment opportunities i would think. the work load has been OK so far, but the real test will be my junior year which is supposed to be toughest for EEs. its a more vocational degree , and since i want to work after graduation and not try for grad. school straightaway, it seemed good to me.