taxguy

ranminisce asks,"HELP: Master of Accountancy versus Local Community College Certificate


Question:
So I'm currently a third year business econ major at UC Irvine and I want to land a job at a Big Four or maybe BDO, Grant Thorton after graduating. BUT I've applied and just recently been rejected by the UCI Accounting Minor (avg accepted GPA was 3.6 =/); being the average student that I am (3.30 GPA), it means that I now have two options:

1) Go for one more yr of school- Try to apply to master of accountancy programs (University of San Diego, USC, SJSU, Univ. of Wash., Bentley) within my last yr of college. And what are my chances of getting in one of these programs ?(3.30 gpa, probably a 680 GMAT, a couple semi-related jobs, not that many extra-curric.)

2) Get the credits/hours at Irvine Valley College (local JC) to be eligible for CPA during my senior yr and try to land a job at Big 4. But I'm afraid it wouldnt have as much credibility as the UCI accounting minor offers and it won't land me a job.

any advice would be greatly appreciated."
__________________________________________________ ____________
Response:
Response: At least for Bentley, you should have a good shot.

You could take courses at your local CC,but they usually don't have enough credits for the CPA. Thus, you will need to go elsewhere anyway.Moreover, credits at community colleges aren't looked upon too well by accounting firms. In addition, some states such as Florida, don't even count courses taken at community college towards their educational requirements.

Frankly, if I were you, I would transfer to a school that will immediately admit you to their accounting program and NOT wait another year in order to see if you can get your grades up enough to get into their program.

NeilKumar03

What is a partner and how do you become one? I know it takes 10-15 years but exactly how and what.

taxguy

Neilkumar, a partner shares in the gains/losses of the firm. At big firms, partners are really glorified employees since they can easily be removed. At smaller firms, partners share the wealth to various degrees and make the management/marketing decisions.

I should also note that not all partners are treated equally even within a firm. Tax law allows different disitributions among partners. You might have various levels of partners some of whom make a lot more than others. Generally, the more seniority or bigger the client base of the partner the greater their share of the pie.

ferryboat10

Taxguy, you have said the Big 4 recruits every AACSB school for their local offices. Does that include graduate schools as well?
If one were to go to an accredited but merely regional public for undergraduate studies, would they be seen in the same light as a top 50 business school student after attending an respected accounting grad program (like UWisconsin or UIllinois)?

taxguy

Gnerally, partners at firms recruit from schools in their state. The reason is two fold:

1. accounting programs are essentially equal from school to school
2. Although there is a Uniform CPA, each state has their own educational requirements for the CPA. Attending a schiool in the areas that the student wants to practice will give them the advantage of meeting the state educational reqluirements. In addition, schools located in the state,whether it be public or private, can provide better advisors who understand that state's requirements for the CPA.

As for a undergrad vs. grad, I honestly don't think it makes a difference to the BIG 4 or other accounting firms as long as the student meets the educational requirements for taking the CPA in that state and has a good GPA.

My older son majored in business admininstration and then got a masters in accounting. All the national CPA firms interviewed him and so did the major local firms.

taxguy

Oh yes, I left out another major benefit of accounting:

there is very little outsourcing for public accounting jobs and for most accounting jobs!

SBDad

But there is some outsourcing, particularly in the area of tax preparation.

Outsourcing, Offshoring, Nearshoring: What to Do?

taxguy

sbdad, although it has been tried in tax preparation, the article notes that there are a number of drawbacks to it such as privacy and responsibility concerns. In addition, the client has to be notified and approve of it,which most clients won't do.

I never said that no outsourcing occurs. I said that very little of it is occuring ,which is the case.

SBDad

I guess it depends on where you sit. If you have lost some of your business to outsourcing, then it sure seems material. CCH has formed a division to handle this and is promoting it on their website.

taxguy

SBDad, CCH doesn't do accounting. They are a publishing company. Moreover, I am not sure what aspect of publishing they have outsourced.

southpasdena

The big 4 and larger national firms regularly outsource their tax work to india - this coming straight from tax managers.

SBDad

taxguy,

CCH is a publishing company, but much more. It owns ProSytstem fx which is a leading tax preparation software product. As part of this line of business, they offer outsourcing of tax preparation. The following is a link to this service.

ProSystem fx Outsource - Home

chasefree

taxguy, so would you say that becoming a partner at a tax firm is akin to becoming a partner at a law firm? Would it require that you be a rainmaker of sorts and be able to command a large client base? Is the tax partner that has more clients and brings in more work paid more? (or is seniority a factor as well)?

thanks, just trying to get a picture of the profession.

taxguy

Chasefree asks,"so would you say that becoming a partner at a tax firm is akin to becoming a partner at a law firm? Would it require that you be a rainmaker of sorts and be able to command a large client base? Is the tax partner that has more clients and brings in more work paid more? (or is seniority a factor as well)?"

Response: Honestly, it depends on the firm. Generally for the Big 4, ( and the next largest few accounting firms) you don't need to bring in clients,but you better be pretty damn good, not to mention be able to play the political game very well if you want to be a partner.

With other than the top 8-10 firms, you generally need to be both competent and bring in clients if you want to make partner. You certainly don't need to bring in clients when you start of even for a number of years. For the midsize and local firms, they just want you to get your CPA and develop strong competence in what you do. However, at some point, you will be expected to be a "rainmaker" if you want to become a partner.

I should note that some firms will make you a "Principal,"which is a non-voting partner if you are very competent but aren't a rainmaker. It all depends on the firm's culture. However, think about it: would you make someone a full partner if you didn't really need them? Wouldn't bringing in a number of clients give you an incredible clout toward partnerships with any firm?

I should also note that you probably won't need to bring in clients, even at midsized firms, if you have a lot of clients who really like you. Firms might be worried you would take the clients if you have that kind of rapport.

schase08

I have a question, taxguy (or anyone else who could answer). How do most people go about becoming CPAs? I'm not sure how to go about getting the 150 credit hour requirement out of the way. Do most people get the bachelor's, work for a firm for a year or two, go back to school to get an MBA, sit for the CPA, and return to work? I'm just really confused at how people do it (I'm an incoming college freshman who's thinking way ahead).

My school has one of those 5 year BS/MBA programs, which would be convenient, but I was rather hoping for a shot at a more prestigious b-school.