f9x9

I'm a senior, waiting to hear back....
Good public school in California.

GPA: 4.0 uw
PSAT: 212 (sophomore year, didn't take in junior year)
SAT: 1480 (800M, 680V) (never studied vocab, prolly could've gotten it up , but too late).

AP Classes, scores listed (all A's in them):
-AP Calculus BC (9)- 3, I was really dumb back then
-AP Biology (10)- 4
-AP Statisics (10)- 5
-AP Physics C (11)- 5
-AP Chemistry (11)- 5
-AP Spanish Language (12)
-AP English Language (12)
-AP Computer Science AB (12)
-AP Microeconomics (12)
-AP Macroeconomics (12)

College Classes (local university):
-Calculus III (10th) - A-
-Linear Algebra (10th) - A
-Discrete Mathematics (11th)- A
-Differential Equations (11th)- A
-Real Analysis (12th)- A

Math Extracirriculars:
-Placed Top 10 in California Math League Junior Year
-Math Club Captain (11th, 12th), member (9th-12th)
-some local competitions
-AMC 10 (9th grade): 118.5
-AMC 12 (10th grade): 112.5
-AIME (10th grade): 0
-AMC 12 (11th grade): 121
-AIME (11th grade): 7
-AMC 12 (12th grade): 136
-Hopefully, a USAMO qualifier this year. Should have been one last year. Kicking myself on missing 1 and 2 on AIME last year.

Science Extraciriculars:
-USAPHO Semifinalist (11th grade)
-Science Olympiad (9th to 12th); states last year.
-Best Science Student of the year in 11th grade

Other Activities (very limited):
-100 hours volunteering local hospital
-Math tutor for algebra at my school
-National Honor Society (10th to 12th)
-Spanish Club (9th to 12th)

Ben Golub

You should get in unless something goes quite wrong. AIME and AMC scores along with nice list of activities should clinch it, and makes up for the 3 on Calc which is really the only important weak thing about the app.

f9x9

Really? I'm not even a USAMO qualifier, though.

simfish

Hmm - I thought Caltech wanted students who clearly stood out - and your app only stands out in that you're taking very high-end math courses - so then the rest of your application becomes very important. But does Caltech still admit strong math/science students who don't clearly stand out - unlike the Ivies? (THen I might have a chance!!)

May I ask what you were doing ver the past two summers?

Also - calc III is multivariable, right?

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BTW - your stats do inspire me! I'll probably die on the AIME this year as well (current sophomore)- but your app shows it's possible to rise from a 0 to a 7 in only one year! Great work - maybe I might have a chance at shooting for the USAMO too! =) How much did you study - and did you use any resources besides Art of Problem Solving?

simfish

Hmm - did you do any research?

Ben Golub

Not many get 7 on the AIME. Way fewer, in my anecdotal experience, than people who have 5 800's or something like that. It shows a very good (though not absolutely mindblowing) capacity for mathematics.

Plus, last I checked, taking a bunch of math classes that most college students never ever take as a high school sophomore, junior, and senior is "clearly standing out". What more do you want?

Also, what is this:

"But does Caltech still admit strong math/science students who don't clearly stand out - unlike the Ivies?"

-- it's news to me that the Ivies don't admit math/science students who don't "clearly stand out" if they're as good as this kid, or even not at that level. First of all, Brown and Dartmouth would have admitted my mathematical left foot. But never mind that, even Princeton would take this applicant with pretty good essays. Harvard has !even! been known to take kids who do math/science and *gasp, shudder* never took college courses and didn't do anything on par with this applicant. (I know because they're my friends.)

In short, simfish, I think your standards for "standing out" are amusingly high or your regard for this applicant is amusingly low.

Anyway, I'd bet money that this applicant would certainly get into at LEAST one of HYP if he applied (and he can tell us, later, if he did). I've already said that he'll probably get into Caltech, too.

Simfish's comments are in the ballpark for things that involve merit money -- there you need to be not just outstanding but mindblowing. However, if the admissions standards of any university were high enough to make this applicant marginal, there wouldn't be enough students to fill the freshman class. So adjust down a bit and don't be quite so critical ;-)

reasonabledad

Ben ~ Thank you for the evaluation. My kids are looking at it as I write this (f9x9 has some parallels to their situation), with great interest. One thought: it is easy for an applicant to become concerned that this or that accomplishment is insufficient to put him/her in the running for a dreamed-of school. I guess I'm saying that I understand where Simfish is coming from, which is precisely why I appreciate your comments!

simfish

Thanks for criticizing my comments, Ben. The applicant is certainly strong - it's just that i've only seen stats from other applicants at Collegeconfidential - so I've really only seen the very strong and was influenced by only eeing the very best and then got into the mode of thinking that exceptional = exceptional compared to people aat AoPS or CC. This applicant did make me feel more confident about applying because the stats seem somewhat similar to mine although still slightly better. Since i was always influenced by the notion that I could never get into Caltech - I kinda am a bit more harsh to people with similar stats as mine. Oh well - i need a rephrasing of mind. Maybe I do have a chance.

f9x9

Ben said: "....he applied (and he can tell us, later, if he did"

I actually only applied to three IIT's (Indian Institute of Technology) Harvard, Princeton (top choice), MIT, Caltech (top choice), Harvey Mudd, UC Berkely, and UC Santa Barbara. No Yale for me. I intend to be a math/linguistics major. I have done no research at all, so actually I'm pretty worried if that will hinder me. That and my limited extracirriculars.

Reasonabledad: Just curious. Could you tell me about your kids' stats and courses taken in detail? I'd like to compare myself with other applicants, present and future.

Simfish: Calculus III is multivariable or vector calculus

Simfish: I played Halo and Super Smash Brothers Meelee and had fun working through India high school math problems the last few summers.

Simfish: What's Art of Problem Solving? (Edit: Wait, I searched for it and its pretty cool. I wish I had known about it earlier.) Anyways, how did I improve? Well, I was always advanced in math (i.e. taking algebra in 6th, geo in 7th, and advanced algebra/trig in 8th. But I was just advanced because my parents had forced me to accelerate. Thus, in 9th grade, I didn't do too well on the Calc BC exam or on the AMC exams. Our class was easy, though; that's the only reason I still have a 4.0.

In 10th grade, I wisened up, and really worked hard in my math classes, but still was not where I needed to be. I only scored a 112.5/0 on the AMC/AIME because I was still not aware of how to solve tough questions. But that year, a boy from my school was in the USAPHO semifinals, USAMO, and was also featured in the newspaper for getting a 1600 SAT/36 ACT. I became really jealous, and thus I decided to study math intensely. So over that summer, I reworked through our school's entire textbooks, which solidified my knowledge in the basics. I also went through a geometry, trignometry, and algebra book my uncle had gotten from India that all high schoolers are tested on at the end of each year. The precalclus book (India 12th Standard Board Examination- Math) was all right; I'd say its only slightly tougher than the american kinds. But the geometry (Geometry: Standard X) and trignometry (Trignometry: Standard XI) were great; you were asked to prove things like Heron's formula and apply the formulas and theorems in really clever ways. It was really tough, but I worked through them. It was that time in which I started loving math and physics. I'd say that book was responsible for me getting 5 out of the total 6 problems on geometry and trig right on the AIME last year.

Anyways, in my 11th grade year, I took Discrete Math at a local university, wanting to avoid fall into the math burnout trap, sticking with that elective (In my opinion, I feel it was a mistake for me to take so many math courses. I should've only taken Calc III in 10th grade, not doubled up with Linear Algebra. Then, I could've taken only Discrete Math in 11th, not doing Differential Equations. I'd still be taking only real analysis this year. That way, I would have been less stressed, and had more fun in math competitions. I really regret taking so many of those college courses; I might even have to repeat some in college because all of of my EPGY courses (Calculus III, Diff EQ and Linear Algebra) are not considered "comparitive in difficulty", according to a Princeton math professor I e-mailed. Oddly enough, the courses I'm taking from Cal Poly (Real Analysis and Discrete Math) will be transferred if I go to Princeton, so I will have Real Analysis on my transcript, but not Calc III, Differential Equations, and Linear Algebra! Odd. I'm retaking the BC exam for credit this year, by the way. I do not recommend EPGY to others, by the way. Its just not that good (from personal experince). My main point is to warn others not to blindly take too many college classes. It will leave them stressed, take away free time for fun and math competition studying, and may not give them credit in college.

Whoaa.... derailment of thought. Anyways, that Discrete Math course taught me a lot about number theory and combinatorics, which earned me a problem apiece. I just feel like an idiot missing 1 and 2 on the AIME. That's all I did to prepare, to tell you the truth. That trig/geo book was excellent.

That's about all I did. I'm just working through an Indian exam book with questions from tests that are taken from IIT entrance exams, which serve the dual benefit of helping me study for the AIME and helping me get into IIT.

simfish

Thanks for all of the information f9x9! I see - so you studied from problems from previous competitions of another country. Jealousy also really helps here - I know that feeling. There is a USAMO qualifier in my school although I'm not jealous at him because I feel I can't catch up. Still, I'm kinda jealous at others I know online, so...

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So what would you recommend I do if I run out of math at the high school? No more Stanford EPGY - any other decent distance courses? And dang - my local university is not friendly to high school students. =(

f9x9

You should do courses at your local university, if at all possible. But you say not really, so try your community college. You should probably be able to take Calculus III, Linear Algebra, Differential Equations there at the very least. If not, I'd suggest just focusing on math competitions, and take courses at camps (PROMSYS, Ross, Mathcamp) over the summer. I've heard these camps cram semester college courses as well as problem solving instruction. There's no replacment for that. Distance education courses get very stressful; just focus on other stuff that will enrich you. Like I'm doing this year; I have two free periods in school and only one college class. Its really fun doing AIME practice in the two free school hours.

reasonabledad

f9x9 ~ My son is a year behind you, and my D is a year behind Simfish. S has 3.95 uw, 1570 on the SAT 1, 800/800/760 on Math IIC, Physics, and Writing, and 223 on PSAT. He literally just learned about the AMC a few weeks ago (from the CC boards), so he walked into the AMC 12B without much preparation and scored a 109. He takes AIME for the first time next week. Like you, he has taken a lot of math courses (Calc BC in 9th grade), including EPGY for two courses (and plans two more next year unless he sees something better from the local university). Lots of AP tests (10 tests by the end of 10th grade made him one of five in the USA to win National AP scholar last year at the end of tenth grade). Some other ECs, and has applied for his first patent already on a computer project he figured out on his own. He's a homeschooler in the US so he can develop his own curriculum and follow his passions. I was struck by your similar SAT/ PSAT, AP, and AMC-AIME situations, as S would be very pleased to get a 7 on AIME, although of course he hopes for a 10 which might send him to the USAMO. Too bad I did not understand these competitions sooner or he might have prepared like you did! Good work, and we are impressed with your dedication and self-study drive!

Why linguistics and mathematics? What do you hope to do?

f9x9

I just like linguistics.... I'm taking an introductory course in it at school. Just as a hobby, I suppose. Math, I don't know. I just am good at it. I hope to either become a math professor or an actuary (if I decide I do not like academia).

Ben Golub

On your concern about not having done research... I can make a pretty strong case it won't interfere with getting *in* to these schools... the app is pretty strong. If you did have a nice research project, you'd be a candidate for a full ride at Caltech and pretty serious recruitment in general.

reasonabledad

f9x9 ~ There is some very interesting math to be done in the financial markets, with the complexities of discounting risk. As an engineer myself, I always liked science more than business, but I see these brilliant mathematicians at work and now understand that they also tackle very interesting problems. Just food for thought, for after you have a PhD...