mcde1928

Quick Question, I have been reading through this post for awhile.

I am a current junior in high school and have been looking around at colleges to apply to next year. A factor in my college search is majors offered and I absolutely love chemistry/biology hence my want to be a doctor (specialized surgeon). Is there certain majors that I should look into if I want to go to med school and then become hopefully a surgeon? I was thinking like biochemistry.

Also, I was wondering about residency. I know this is the first time a med graduate starts to learn about a specific practice (ie. orthopedic surgery) but is it like a shadowing experience where you basically follow around doctors and closely learn everything they do? Cause I know there are residency programs at hospitals and such, but what is involved in a residency program? And what is a fellowship and when is it needed?

Bigredmed

Pick any major. No major is going to help you in either A) getting into med school or B) getting "a leg up" for med school classes. So pick a major that interests you and that you can be passionate about. Don't get stuck thinking you have to be a science major - I personally was a sociology major because it interested me and was something that I enjoyed learning about, while also giving me more freedom in picking the science classes I actually did take (like looking for good profs or great content).

As for residency, it's much more learning by doing. There are some portions which are merely observing, but for the most part as a resident you do it while someone supervises you.

For example, I'm a pediatrics resident. I have a set number of months spent in the Neonatal ICU, the Pediatric ICU, the inpatient wards, the ER and the general peds clinic. I have requirements to do a month in the Adolescent Clinic and with the Behavioral and Developmental Pediatricians. These are experiences that the Pediatric Section of the American Council on Graduate Medical Education have deemed essential for all pediatricians whether they go into a subspecialty or simply work at a clinic in a small town doing general pediatrics. I am required to take a certain number of core electives in things like Peds Infectious Disease, Pediatric Nephrology (kidneys) or Peds Neurology while having the options to take more specialized (but less essential) fields like Peds Anesthesia or Sports Medicine which may be of more personal interest but not something everyone wants or needs. There are increasing responsibilities as you progress through the three year residency. For example, as I've become more experienced in the ER, I have more freedom to stitch up lacerations and do lumbar punctures on my own. My hospital has an active helicopter transport service, and after completing our PICU rotation we can work on the transport service for extra money, but it means we have to fly out to small hospitals and operate fairly independently (though help is a phone call away).

If you were to do general surgery, you'd have set periods of time on the vascular service, the trauma team, the pediatric surgery group and the colo-rectal service among others. There may be some elective time, and just like in any other residency, there's increasing responsibility as you progress.

Fellowship is further training to subspecialize even further. For example, I LOVE being in the Peds ICU and so I plan to pursue a Peds Critical Care fellowship. A PICU Fellow functions above the level of a resident, providing supervision and guidance to them, while also learning the finer, more nuanced aspects of taking care of really, really sick kids. Peds Critical Care is multisystem, but Pulmonary Fellows (lungs) get to learn everything there is to know about the lungs - asthma, allergies, chronic home ventilation, and Cystic Fibrosis, while Renal Fellows learn all about high blood pressure, nephrotic syndrome and dialysis. To a certain extent they almost can ignore the rest of the body when taking care of a patient. Fellowships out of Gen Surgery include things like Peds surgery, Surgical Critical care, Trauma, vascular and colo-rectal. If you did an ENT residency, you can do fellowships that focus more on the ear, more on the neck, or with a specific patient population such as pediatrics.

As a HS student focus on getting good grades and finding the best college for you. You have plenty of time to tackle the residency and fellowship questions.

jasonleb1

*This is in reference, in large, to the earlier posts.

I hate threads like this. They make so many good potential doctors completely rule out becoming one at all because they read almost completely negative comments. When was the last time someone on this thread talked out how rewarding being a doctor is? Maybe 15 times on a 34 page thread. That's sad.

I, for one, have known I wanted to be a surgeon since I was 7. I got to watch a surgery as a birthday present (it was a routine appendectomy but still) and I was captivated. Yes, it's a lot of work and most doctors don't make as much as people think but people on here make it sound like doctors live in poverty, which is what happens when you compare their salaries to those of CEOs and really what are your actual chances for becoming a CEO? Maybe a tenth of one percent? Being a doctor is an interesting and rewarding career, just thought I'd put another outlook on it.

mcde1928

I just got the awesome experience of shadowing an orthopaedic surgeon at a nearby hospital for a day and as a 16 year old, it was probably one of the most amazing experiences I have ever experienced (and I have a had a pretty awesome life so far ). I got to see a hip resurfacing and also two knee replacements and it was incredible and I was suprised how violent the surgeons are! Anyone who has shadowed one or is one, you guys pound away at the body as if you are nailing in hardwood flooring and after they dislocated the hip during the resurfacing, I started getting a little light headed and had to leave the room but I assume that in the next 16 years that will start to go away haha.

Anyways, even if doctors and surgeons have to work long hours and to some dont get paid enough, if its something you really like and are interested in, its a field full of fun and cool people, and is very rewarding no matter what some people are saying about some of it.

311710rvmt

As for the previous few people who shadowed a surgeon and felt really great: I applaud you interest in but would like to issue some caveats. I am a college student that comes from a family of doctors and is interested in applying to medical school, and I have to say that observing a surgery only gives you part of the picture. When you live with a physician or surgeon, you get some sense of the stresses and responsibilities of medicine. A lot of fellow college students are really gung-ho about becoming a doctor. It's NOT the easy money. It involves seeing humanity at its most vulnerable, most pitiable. I really wish students could get to know a doctor personally like I did before considering medicine...

buckeyesurgeon

Read this whole thread, although much of it is accurate I would like to point out a few things. People seem to think that the posted salary surveys for doctors are gross income. This is not true, malpractice and overhead has already been taken out. You will not be buying private jets as a physician, however it is still a pretty lucrative career. A general family practitioner these days usually grosses around 300-400K. After malpractice and overhead it comes around to a 160-200K salary. Specialties on the other hand can make much more. A general surgeon gets paid 250-400K a year. MGMA is the only company that provides accurate information on doctor salaries, it's what hospitals use to hire physicians. Many of the really low salaries you hear about from doctors is usually in academic medicine. These are doctors who split their time between practicing medicine, research, and teaching. Making money is not their primary concern since most academic physicians top out at around 150K.

bluedevilmike

I don't think anybody's been making this mistake. Taxes have NOT been taken out, which is why we're adjusting appropriately in making long-term calculations.

bluedevilmike

NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/19/health/19cost.html?em

epicgee

CEO's earn more than doctors when you look at bonuses etc. however, not every person who does business becomes a CEO. However, just about every doctor is a doctor.

buckeyesurgeon

High tuition costs aren't specific to medicine. I know high school teachers that went to private school and racked up 6 figure debts. At least in medicine you are guaranteed a great salary. Even as a PCP, earning around 180K it shouldn't be all that difficult to pay off a 200K debt. Loan forgiveness is becoming more and more common. Especially for PCPs who work in rural areas.

Vetnerd08

Yes... Even If it's with animals if is a great experience. But, it's not for everyone so you should probably follow a vet for a day or a doctor and see if any medicine is for you.

Brolex

The arguments in this thread reminded me of a quote I read somewhere.

Medicine is as close to healing as prostitution is to love.

RNtoMD

Ok, so I'm about to start med skool at what is prolly the MOST expensive skool, tuition is $50k/yr and I already have about $70k in undergrad debt, so, realistically, as I have no savings/family to contribute, I'm looking at $300-$400k in debt after 4 years of hell. Now, I'm very, very keen on living in the EU or Canada, I really want out of the US for (reasons I wont get into here-but I am a born and bred Californian)---so *I've been thinkin*, maybe I can re-locate to another country and practice medicine there and run out on my american debt. I doubt that my license can be pulled for failing to pay back loans, and I'm sure that the feds/private lenders wont bother chasing me down in Europe, so maybe that's a way out. Any thoughts (and, please spare me the ethical criticisms of my idea--I have 5 friends from various countries in the EU and med/higher ed is FREE there in many countries- as it should be here, so skipping out on outrageous debt, in my mind, in not moral high treason)..........could this work? How hard would it be for an American anesthesiologist to relocate to EU and would I have to finish my residency first or could I go right after skool?

Btw, talk about finding it hard to commit to going into medicine, right now working 24 hrs/week as an RN I'm pulling in $82k/year, no OT required--which if I did work it would pay >$120/hr--so, I'm REALLY finding it hard to get off that fence, I've gotta decide by June/July since I'm supposed to start in Aug 11. Only reason I dont wanna stay in nursing it it's (IMO) intellectually boring and painfully hard on the back/body (and I pretty much hate it)......hope to hear from multiple perspectives

emily121507

I've been reading this thread for a while now, and its made me even more confused than I already was. I'm currently a senior in high school and am not sure if i should go into nursing (to become a nurse practitioner) or a doctor. I'm extremely passionate about science but my parents aren't extremely wealthy and if I do end up becoming a nursing major, for some reason I think I would feel like I'm selling myself short (I'm not saying that nursing isn't a beautiful and challenging career). Does anybody have any insight?m

greyhaired

Well you can have the best of both world. If you want you can get a nursing degree and as long as you do the pre med requirements (Biology, Chemistry, Orgainc Chemistry, Calculus and Physics) you will have the option for medschool. I work with a lot of Nurse Practioners and god bless them!

In many ways NP's are permanent interns. I have a mostly hospital based practice. the NP's see the inpatients every day, write notes, discharge and make sure nothing falls through the cracks. While they do not progress up the ranks, they have the advantage of regular hours, regular pay a bit more security and limited responsibility. My NP friends think in a great trade off.

If you want to have the buck stop at you desk, then you can go on to Medschool and the time and rigors it intails. If you find you love nursing, no harm done.