IzzyD

So I think it's down to Carleton and Vassar for me. Carleton is my first choice and has been for a while, but I know both schools are amazing and I just don't want to choose the wrong one (yeah, I've heard the "you can't go wrong with either", but I tend to have truly horrible luck/karma when it comes to these things...).

It's less a matter of academics for me (I think both Carleton and Vassar are pretty equal academically, but correct me if I'm wrong) and more of a social/cultural thing--drinking/drugs, East Coast v. Midwest, etc. Any help/advice/insights would be really, really appreciated!

IzzyD

Actually, never mind--I stupidly didn't notice that the thread before me dealt with Vassar too, so I'll just read/post on that one.

Now I feel *really* worthy of Carleton and Vassar...

limner

LOL! IzzyD, don't worry about it. This is a stressful time; you're allowed a few oversights.

Sleep on this for a few days. You've got time. Good luck!

KatieApplies

"It's less a matter of academics for me (I think both Carleton and Vassar are pretty equal academically, but correct me if I'm wrong) and more of a social/cultural thing--drinking/drugs, East Coast v. Midwest, etc. Any help/advice/insights would be really, really appreciated!"

Okay, the Midwest v. East Coast is easy, but which school has the drinkers and druggies?

IzzyD

Thanks, limner And Katie, they both have drinkers and druggies (this is Carleton and Vassar we're talking about here...) but I'm trying to figure out which school has more--if either--and to what extent they govern the social scene. I know everyone always says that a substance-free lifestyle is respected at both of these schools, but that's been said about a few other schools I applied to as well, and my visits to those schools left me with the impression that such respect was either very rare or nonexistent.

bethievt

IzzyD

What my son did at Grinnell was request sub-free housing and start with an EC immediately to find other ways to socialize. He doesn't go to all the parties--sometimes the kids just like to hang out in the dorms. There will be substances at parties. There are other things to do.

limner

IzzyD, I can tell you my son's experience. He isn't into drinking and drugging, and he had some concerns his first term about finding like-minded people, about his choices being respected, etc. He's found a bunch of great friends who aren't into a big party scene. You can find that at Carleton, but you can also find its opposite, and neither choice is judged. I think the one thing that *is* looked down on at Carleton is looking down on others' choices.

You can do the old trick of putting both schools' names into a hat and picking that way. Then, listen to your feelings when you draw out one name--you'll know if you really want to go to that school or not.

Hindoo

limner is wise. Heed what she says.

IzzyD

Hindoo, I agree! And limner, I hadn't quite gotten to pulling names out of a hat just yet, but I have been hitting at the same concept: when I think of going to Vassar, I get all sad about not being able to go to Carleton, and when I think about going to Carleton, I still get sad but not as much. A lot of my family has gone to Vassar, though, and I know it sounds foolish, but I don't want to let them down--they wrote me great recs that, while I believe my application was quite strong on its own, certainly couldn't have hurt (really, though, I'm not some legacy kid who couldn't get in otherwise--I hope!).

Just to clarify--while I choose not to drink or do drugs, I certainly don't judge or look down on people who do. While I don't agree with it, I respect that choice, and I would like my decision to be respected as well, that's all.

limner

IzzyD, you don't come across as judgmental at all, which is why I think you'd fit in great at Carleton.

One thing I'll say to you: Put yourself first. This has to be your decision, made for your own reasons. You've worked for it and you deserve to choose your school. You can't choose a college because of someone else. You're the one who's going to be attending. Obviously, financial considerations apply, but if those are in the same ballpark, you need to choose the school *you* want to go to.

Hindoo

I agree that you sound like a perfect future Carl, but then, as a Carleton mom, I'm a bit biased. If Carleton feels right to you, then don't be afraid to blaze your own trail.

dietcokewithlime

Drinking is big at Carleton, which I'm sure has been addressed ad nauseum in older threads. Drugs (aside from pot) are not big at all, though, and even pot isn't too big here for a liberal arts college. My experience has been that far fewer people do drugs of any sort (but especially coke, ecstasy, adderall, etc.) with any regularity here than back home or at friends' schools on the coasts. This isn't to say that nobody at Carleton uses these drugs, but it's basically limited to a few small groups of mostly seniors. There's not really the stim/ADD meds culture around finals here that is present at many top schools, either. I don't know about drug use at Vassar, but I imagine that the rate of hard drug use at Carleton is lower, based off of the midwestern cultural aversion to drugs in general and Vassar's much artsier reputation. (The people who I can think of who use harder drugs here are largely art, cinema and media studies, philosophy types, so this isn't an unreasonable stereotype.) There are not many pot dealers in the area, either, so prices are very high ($50-60 for an eighth), quality is low, and lots of people who might smoke regularly if they went somewhere else don't.

woa

When I read through the posts about drinking at Carleton, I see dietcokewithlime saying there is a ton of drinking. I see others saying the amount of drinking is on par with any other college campus. I see still others saying that Carls drink less than most colleges due to the academic focus and lack of frats. What I think that this might mean is that there is something for everyone. If you hang out with people who drink a lot, it's going to seem like "everyone's doing it." If you drink occasionally, that's probably how you'll see the norm. If you don't drink, you'll find others who aren't into that either. Considering how often this question comes up, my guess is that there are plenty of like-minded students out there.

When I visited St Olaf a few weeks ago, the students I talked to there said that they felt the Carls were way more responsible about drinking than the Oles were. Coming from kids on a dry campus, I found this very interesting.

dietcokewithlime

^ Oh, if I ever said there was a ton of drinking, I didn't mean that there was really moreso here than anywhere else. There's just the same rather high level of drinking at Carleton on the weekends as at similar schools.

1190

To reinforce what dietcokewithlime is saying, alcohol at Carleton is pretty much standard for its peer group. The administration accepts the idea that drinking will happen and simply expects responsible use. The only alternative anyway, draconian (and inevitably ineffective) zero tolerance policies, are just not the sort of thing you’d expect at a place this respectful of students and inclusive of their input. Maybe, WOA, this does contribute to more “responsible” drinking as the Oles you spoke with see it (maybe they just haven’t partied enough crosstown to know better?). While there are plenty of substance free living options around, a non-drinker would still feel very comfortable on any floor in any dorm on campus. As Limner has seen with her own son, “choices being respected” is an unofficial mantra.

Drugs though (especially hard drugs), I’d agree do seem less prevalent here than elsewhere. I’m not sure why. Dietcokewithlime may be right - this may reflect the particular personalities (fewer hipster/”downtown” types) and origins (more than usual from Midwest, small towns) of the students . IzzyD, you say “this is Carleton and Vassar we're talking about here...” and I presume you’re referencing the liberal vibe of both campuses. But you should understand that the true liberalism of Carleton’s student body is their level of tolerance, not their affinity for drug use. Campus democrats may outnumber republicans by a wide margin, but you might still be surprised by the “old fashioned values” so evident here.