HoBBiTFooTeDeWoKS

HELP!! I'm having such a difficult time deciding which of these is my first choice and I don't have much time, please help me compare!

I'm a voice major at a performing arts highschool. I'm not sure if I am aiming for the Met or Broadway yet. Both schools seem great for me I just wish I knew more and were able to make a decision...

Thanks!

soozievt

For one thing, you don't need to make a decision. Apply Regular Decision and then the decision will be made FOR you and if you get into both, it will be next April and you will know more to decide. CMU does not have ED for the BFA program, only NYU does.

I'll comment a bit here....for one thing, the odds of getting into these programs are very difficult ones and so I'm not sure you need to worry about which is a first choice at this point because it is best not to pine away for just one school when it is so slim to even get in. CMU auditioned 1200 kids for 9 MT and 18 Acting slots last year (and no extras due to yield, but do go to a waitlist if people do not take the offer). Are you a girl? The odds are harder at all the programs for a girl. But last year, at CMU, they took 6 boys and 3 girls. So, even if you are the most talented kid on the planet, these odds are nothing you can count on but you should go for it, of course. NYU has a much bigger class but a very low acceptance rate in the single digits for the BFA in musical theater. Again, can't count on it. With programs of this calibur, you need to apply to many. Naturally everyone has their favorites but it might not be worth it to figure out which is the first choice school until you see what April brings. Very few of these programs have Early Decision but NYU does. I would advise you to apply ED to NYU ONLY IF you are certain you want to go there over everywhere else. But if you wait until April to hear from all schools, you will be able to compare your offers and pros/cons and how they meet your criteria.

You said you wish you knew more to make a decision....the best way to know more is to go visit, talk to current students and faculty, get all the written materials, and so on. But you really have no decision that is necessary. You don't have to have a first choice. It is actually better to like many schools when the odds of admission are this selective. IF you are considering applying ED to NYU, make sure you have visited at least one other program that is a favorite in order to make an informed decision to apply early. ED may not be the best route for you. Only do it if you have a CLEAR first choice school.

Good luck. My D loved both those programs. She is about to enter NYU and was waitlisted at CMU. She did not apply ED because she had a couple favorites. She visited them all eventually and then waited to see where she got in and made her choices amongst her acceptances. As I said, the decision is likely to be made for you to some degree. Everyone has favorites but I encourage you to like more than one school. If you are fortunate to be able to pick from several acceptances, then you can go with the favorites. Having one first choice has the potential for setting oneself up for disappointment. Though ED is a possibility if the first choice is far and away a favorite. I can't tell if this is what your decision concerns or not. If you are not looking to apply ED, then no need to have to decide a first choice at this juncture. Again, research every program thoroughly. You will see that very few have ED. Some have rolling or EA.

Good luck....

Susan

HoBBiTFooTeDeWoKS

I suppose a little more personal info would be useful to advice-givers... I'm a boy. I am interested in several other schools but these two are at the top of my list. I really wanted someone to weigh or at least present the differences in the programs so i can start getting an idea of what to choose in the event that i am accepted into both schools. And this forum place is the first i've heard of/seen anything about steinhardt...i'm assuming from context clues that this is the classical voice program at tisch? please tell me more about it! also, if anyone has any audition song suggestions they would be greatly appreciated! -thanks.

soozievt

You say these two are at the top of your list. Can you articulate why? Is it in name or prestige only? What attracted YOU to these specific programs? You are asking what are the differences in these programs....do you know any yourself? What you need to do is research each one thoroughly....read their websites and materials. List what you see as pros or cons or strengths or appeals of each program. That will begin to make the differences clearer. I know that was the first thing my kid did in January of the year before she applied. It was a FIRST step. Then when visiting a program, you will be able to see for yourself which meets your criteria and interests in a program the best. We can't research this for you. If you have SPECIFIC questions about a PARTICULAR program, this is a great place to ask it. But first, you must research each program thoroughly on your own in order to come up with these specific questions. For instance, you should be able to know that the size of these two programs is radically different. By the way, Steinhardt is not AT Tisch, but is a separate school at NYU, the music school. Tisch is a drama school. Steinhardt also offers musical theater but is more centered on music. Read about each program on NYU's websites and link to those two schools, Tisch and Steinhardt and you will have a background and then perhaps you can ask something specific and someone here might know the answer. Visiting is the key to figuring out which you like best. Again, right now this research needs to be your focus, not deciding which you would choose if accepted to both. Time will help you figure that out, but honestly the outcome of the admissions process will possibly decide it anyway.

Nobody can suggest audition songs for you without knowing anything about your voice, your strengths, etc. This is something you should work on with your voice teacher. What is best for one person is not best for another. We can't hear you sing or see you act a song to know what your forte is. If you have a much more SPECIFIC question about some song choices you are considering and why, perhaps someone can advise you.

The question of what to sing or what school should be your first choice are very general questions. Perhaps if you could tell us what you want in a BFA program and then what attracted you specifically to NYU and CMU (besides their names), we can discuss which might fit what you want better. In my opinion, at this juncture in your process, it is just important to learn as much as you can about each program, be open to various possibilities (as you might not be given much choices considering the odds of admission at these selective programs), come up with some favorites if given a choice, and then see what happens. Once you audition and visit, you'll know which you prefer. Focus on the application process and prepare for the auditions. You can pick where you will attend and think much more about that after auditions are over and you are in the waiting process.

Susan

rossji

My d applied ED to NYU, and if I (not she!) had to do it over again, I would have made her audition for all the other 9 schools on her list so we could compare financial aid packages. She did get some aid at NYU, but I can't help but wonder if it was limited due to her being ED. So that's something to consider. She is also planning on a double major at NYU; not sure if you can do that at CM.

tripletreat

Location – NYC vs. Pittsburgh. Nuff said.

Working Grads – Lots from both but Tisch is MUCH bigger and CMU probably has a higher percentage.

Faculty – Tisch has more impressive performance resumes partly because they are in NYC while CMU has more professional teachers with less real world experience.

Studios – At Tisch you get different kids in your classes every term and you get the option to change studios while at CMU it is the same kids all the time for four years.

Financial Aid – CMU kicks NYU in the Tischie.

Overall education – You can double major at Tisch while you take no other classes and do NOTHING but MT at CMU because they already consider it a double major. The acting majors only get one class that is not theatre each term.

Reputation – Top at both but I have heard some pros joke that Tisch babysits lots of rich kids. This might come from it being so big that there might be some slackers that skate by and suck when they get in the real world which is probably where that comes from. CMU’s program is so small that it is less likely to happen because there is nowhere to hide. I have never heard anyone say anything bad about the abilities of CMU grads but have heards some psycho diva stories.

hayhayden

"Faculty – Tisch has more impressive performance resumes partly because they are in NYC while CMU has more professional teachers with less real world experience."

I've done lots of research on alot of schools - and these 2 in particular - and the above statement just isn't true. Take a look at the faculty bios on CMU's webpage and you'll see that the faculty has had plenty of real-world experience with very impressive resumes.

"Working Grads – Lots from both but Tisch is MUCH bigger and CMU probably has a higher percentage."

Another thing that interests me... When you get down to it, both places offer very excellent, top-notch training (I'm looking at PH, Atlantic, and Adler @ Tisch), but there are just SOOO many more Tisch grads in the world that CMU grads! That is somewhat of a turnoff to me - when 200 more Tisch Drama students graduate every year, it's kinda flooding the marketm whereas you're only looking at maybe 30 CMU grads.

soozievt

One difference that I could have noted earlier was that at CMU, it is almost strictly conservatory with very little in terms of academic classes and at NYU it is also conservatory but there are more liberal arts classes involved in the degree and it is possible to minor or double major in something else.

I can't say whether CMU kicks NYU in the Tischie with regard to financial aid but only have ONE person's experience to share. I'm not even counting all the loans and such but strictly talking scholarships or grants....NYU gave my D $20,000 in scholarship per year and CMU gave a grant as part of the aid package and the grant was $13,000 which is not necessarily a guaranteed constant for all four years. So, that is one person who did not fit the description you gave.

When comparing schools, certain things are facts and certain things are opinions. I think some facts that differ in these two programs are size, curriculum, performance activities, location and some of the rest is hearsay or opinion.

Susan

tripletreat

hayhayden, I have already done that and I think you misunderstood me. I didn't mean CMU's faculty weren't impressive. That would be crazy! The Tisch faculty just obviously has more active Broadway experience by nature of being in NY while CMUers have spent more time in regional theatre and have devoted more of their careers to teaching which might not be bad. They definitely get results for their students!

soozievt, that is scholarships and is the exception. Congrats by the way! How much did Tisch offer you in grants and whatnot? My understanding is that they are notoriously bad with their offers. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong because it is the main reason I'm not going to apply there. CMU also has half scholarships if you can get them.

soozievt

Tripletreat, the NYU Trustee scholarship is first based on merit/talent and then need plays a factor in the total amount. You asked how much they offered in grants...that IS the grant portion of the financial aid package and then there are loans, JUST like at CMU and at every college she applied to. Each of them gave some in scholarship or grant. Some, like Tisch, Ithaca, Syracuse, Penn State, and Boston Conservatory also had merit or talent scholarships without the need part that she got. Some combined that in the package and some wrote it out separately. In the end, NYU was one of the better packages though some others came close with their scholarship or grant offers. I'd say the biggest scholarships or grants came from NYU, CMU, Syracuse, Emerson, and Ithaca. Boston Conservatory's was still substantial. Penn State's was not nearly as much as the others (still really liked Penn State, however).

CoachC

Maybe not the right place to post this, but UM also gives some GREAT merit awards based on a combination of audition and application (recommendations, essay, evidence of other artistic endeavors such as writing, etc.). Brent Wagner, the head of the MT Department, actually sent one of my students who was the recipient of a huge (nearly full) scholarship a detailed email pointing out things he has written in his essay, things his recommendations had said, etc., in addition to of course detailing what had stood out about his audition. So take that part of your application seriously (not that anyone who reads here wouldn't)!

Also, it is my experience that if you do get into CMU and the award package they give you isn't substantial enough for you to be able to attend, you can tell whichever faculty person you have been in most contact with and they can often (not always, but often) get that offered increased. They kind of court YOU after you are admitted, especially if you are deciding between them and another school - which is a nice change!

Good luck - money issues are sometimes the hardest part of this whole process!

HoBBiTFooTeDeWoKS

thanks for great replys...um, about the audition song thing i was really just looking for personal success stories, like what are songs that you all have had luck with...to help anyone who actually would give me some suggestions....I'm a tenor, range is about A/B(below treble staff) to high C (above) for full voice (A3/B3 to C6 for any theory geeks) i love ballads with a dramatic and high climax, i could use some extra help looking for up-tempos since i don't do them very often..

i didn't mean to give you all the wrong impression that i hadn't done any research, hadn't been to these school's sites, and hadn't planned a campus visit yet.....i'm really not completely inept. it's all just very time consuming and i am wondering about other people's personal opinions about the two programs, what have you found out that i probably have no idea about...i know they're different and it's hard to judge, but i want to go to the best school, give myself the best education and the best shot at making it in the professional world.

now that i know what steinhardt is....is it possible to double major between steinhardt and tisch?? cuz that would be amazing....the best of both worlds kind of thing...i will call admissions and find out if no one knows and then post it here cuz i'm sure others are/would be interested

i really appreciate any help that anyone can give...i'm a performer and it's what i love and want to spend my life doing and the impression has been put upon me that CMU and NYU have the Best programs for what I want, thus is my reasoning in placing the two at the top of my college search list.

also, what is your opinion on applying ED or EA to either of these schools..i don't think CMU has ED but maybe EA.....i know that i can only do that once so is it worth it?

newho, thanks and i hope to get many replys

soozievt

If you research NYU, you will see that you can only apply to ONE school at that university. Thus, you must decide ahead of time if you are applying to Steinhardt or Tisch. There are discussions on this forum about the differences of those two schools within NYU. Do a search.

If you look up CMU, you will see that for Drama, they do not offer ED or EA. Everyone finds out in March.

While both NYU and CMU are very well regarded programs in terms of prestige, they are not the only ones of that calibur. Usually, CCM and UMich are considered in that category. As well, so many other programs out there are also highly regarded and are excellent and very selective and thus it is about which fits just what you are looking for. For each school, after you research it, list the attributes about it...my D did that and some of the differences became abundantly clear. You will learn more as you talk to current students and visit. You will hopefully like MANY schools because it is so hard to get in that it is wise to fall in love or picture yourself at more than one of these programs. Naturally, you will favor some over others. But rather than look for the "best" program, look for the ones that appeal to specific criteria that YOU have. And remember, no need to figure out which you like best right now because few offer ED and if you do RD, then they are gonna pick YOU before you can pick them. I hope you end up with a choice. We figured of 8 schools, let's hope one comes through. A choice would be nice. Getting several schools, including some favorites was icing on the cake.

Susan

soozievt

With regard to the songs, rather than find out what others have had success with, why not tell what you have had success with and either use those again or others can suggest songs that are similar to the style of ones that have worked for YOU before. What works for some other guy might not be right for your voice or style.

I think what we are suggesting here is to do the research on the programs...read this website's many threads on these topics and then you will know so much (ie, stuff about Steinhardt and Tisch), that you can come to people here with specific questions regarding them. Also, you need to set up some spreadsheets with info. on each school.....find this information out by reading their brochures and websites thoroughly....that way YOU can find out which offer ED or EA and much else.

Susan

theatermom

Please do a search on "Steinhardt" on the ARCHIVES of CC. Look for the link to the archives at the bottom of the page. Click there and then use the archive search function. Or search under my screen name ("Theatermom") and check posts dated between 10/03 and 2/04. My D applied there (auditioned on an open audition day in November of 2003) and I wrote many posts describing what I learned about the difference between Tisch and Steinhardt, my D's experience auditioning at Steinhardt and my opinion of the relative merits of the two programs. I really can't type it all over again......I just checked the info that is included in the FAQ link for MT and I now find that some of that information is incorrect or incomplete (note to Shauna).

You can only apply to one or the either - the programs are completely separate and NYU only allows you to apply to one or the other. Both offer ED, not EA.