3togo

FYI - one source on alumni donation rates ...

University Planning & Analysis

... generally in the 30-40% range for top tier schools.

Sam Lee

^But for most schools, it's nowhere near that. We are talking about international students in the US in general and that means US colleges in general, not just the top tier schools that represent less than 1% of all colleges.

Sam Lee

I don't have the collective data to claim one way or another, do you?

I don't have the collective data, do you?

Really? Do you have data/sample stats to back that up? All I know is the term "helicopter parents" is a very American term and doesn't have any Chinese root.

I am sure plenty of American white kids with top credentials are wondering about the same thing each year. Plenty of Chinese kids got into the top schoools. That I know for certain.

Don't throw the ball to my court. You are the one that makes characterization and claims one after another. The burden of proof is on you, not me.

cellardweller

Even at schools with high rates of alumni donations, the percentage of total revenue represented by gifts from alumni is relatively small. Tuition and endowment revenue is always greater.

As an example, even at USC which has a formidable alumni organization with the second highest alumni contribution rate in the country, gifts represent less than 13% of total annual revenue as compared to nearly 40% for tuition. Of student tuition revenue, 30% is allocated to financial aid, overwhelmingly for US students. The vast majority of international students are full pay and their tuition does help subsidize the US students.

Many of the top US universities and LACs have active recruiting efforts in China through agents. Others like Grinnell, Williams, Franklin & Marshall send their admission deans on recruiting trips to China.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/ed...pagewanted=all

Cashing in on the demand for a US college education by upper middle class Chinese families has become big business up and down the ranks of US public and private colleges. It is estimated that international students contribute $21 billion to the US economy.

A Surge in Graduate Students from China Brings Big Benefits | Think Tank | Big Think

Over two-thirds of surveyed colleges now have specific programs targeted at internationals with a primary focus on China.

http://www.iie.org/en/Who-We-Are/New...ents-2011.ashx

Last year around 160,000 Chinese nationals were studying in the US, with around 1 of 4 internationals from China. The number will approach 200,000 this year.

http://www.iie.org/Research-and-Publ...rs%202011.ashx

making_a_point

"I also believe that most foreigners who are full pay will never be alumni donors to their universities. It is the belief of Chinese people that if they paid the respective fee for something they do not owe anything moving forward. Please correct me if I am wrong. "

momma-three, you are quite wrong. I can list you a couple of major donor who are foreign students and have contributed big time. Check out these links and I hope after reading these article you will change your mind about foreign students.

Mr. Wu give Princeton $100 million!!!
Hong Kong Builder, Graduate of Princeton, Gives It $100 Million - NYTimes.com

Mr Fu give $26 million to Columbia to set up the Fu School of Engineering.
Columbia School of Engineering and Applied Science - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This Chinese guy gives Yale $8,888,888!!!

Lei Zhang’s Donation To Yale University, Chinese Reactions – chinaSMACK

These are just a few Chinese donor who also happened to be foreign students. They are not U.S. born Chinese. Also, if you walk in the new campus center of Wellesley College you will be surprised to know who donoted big money to build the Lulu Wang Center.

Lulu Chow Wang Campus Center

making_a_point

momma-three, check this one out too.

Recollections of Regenstein inspired Mansuetos’ library gift

momma-three

I never asked to a poster the link because I could'nt find it. The poster was posting info that could be from his proverbial ----- as you so kindly pointed out regarding my infomation.

If you are insulted about the way Chinese students are being characterized than how can you explain that most Chinese children of educated families are all involved in the same activities through elementary, middle and highschool. Yes of course Chinese children are involved in the the many academic competitions that you have mentioned and that is again a function of the work hard mentality that sets Chinese students apart at face value. That does not ignore the fact that there are more Chinese students than not that who are coming from educated families that are involved with a very prescribed list of activities. I have close to 100 Chinese clients who send their children to the very same ECs. Is that infor in a study?... Of course not but it is real and I see it and hear it on a daily basis. These very same parents are spending the entire weekend every weekend in a dizzying spin of running from one activity to another.....exhausting just hearing about it but I see it too. I have not disclosed the business that I own and operate but most of my clients are Chinese and many of my clients have been with me for years. I respect most of them a great deal however what I have said here is the same thing that we have discussed over many a cordial meeting. It is a problem that seems to perpetuate because most of the parents only speak to other Chinese parents and the only thing they are aware of is what other Chinese kids are doing and as a result they all do the same thing. Do I have stats to prove it....no....just as I have said but who needs stats when the population of people I am speaking about are known to be educated...live in suburbia...own their own homes...born in China...and there are at least 100 families from several different townships that I have known. I could probably publish my own study based on the sample group I am referring to. I also understand that my familiarity with the culture is not something that most Americans know first hand. I feel fortunate to have the friendship of many of my clients and the close aquaintance of so many people in a culture that is so dedicated to a common denominator....their children and their childrens education. With that comes some observations as well and I have mentioned them. You may not like the portrayal but it is what is noted in the large sample of the families that I know.

As far as alumni donors go...again I posted no stats but from my experience with the parents that I know both from my community and through my business I can be certain of one thing and that is the belief that when you have paid for something you owe nothing more. The Universities are dependant on alumni donations for things like need based aid for students who can not afford an education at a particular college. The Chinese thinking is not open to the idea of giving to American people when there parents have not worked hard to provide it for their own children....Again I will ask you if I am wrong. These are conversations that I have been involved in for years through my work connections, and social situations as a result of my bussiness. I said earlier that this may be a reason that foreign students Chinese students are seeing an edge right now as full pay over American full pay.

There are two possiblilies that should be explored:
1. Are too many Chinese American students applying to the top schools in America with very similar ECs in addition to great SAT scores and top GPAs?

2. Are top colleges realizing that Chinese American students (and of course there are always exceptions) will graduate and for the most part leave their college without ever making a donation? You assume I am speaking out of my --- but if you examine the belief system of Chinese people who come to this country you should be able to admit that what I am saying is correct.

The argument here was not meant to stir up feelings that I am attacking Chinese Americans, however, if you take what I am saying as a negative rather than a cultural difference than you are negating the fact that cultural differences exist and that makes you look like you would rather hide the difference rather than accept it and understand where there may be ways to change things to make things easier for the children who are experiencing some disappointing results in admissions.

momma-three

I am not taking away from anyone who has donated but it is also apparent that donators listed have donated to help other Chinese students or Chinese foreigners.....you are helping to make my point.

fncdad

@Sam Lee and others,

When one has already dug a well twice or three times as deep as the norm and there is still no water, it stands to reason that it is unlikely that you will find water going further.

cellardweller

Momma-three:

Your ignorance and prejudice are astounding:

That is ridiculous.

In regards to Wu's gift to Princeton;


As far as Zhang's gift to Yale:

We have already debunked that claim. Financial aid budgets are overwhelmingly funded from student tuition especially from full pay students, a significant portion of which are internationals. Gifts from alumni play a minor role for most large universities.

You know obviously nothing about philanthropy in Asia — in particular, the notions of compassion and service in Buddhism, benevolence in Confucianism, and the relatedness of all in Taoism.

While giving money to one's alma-mater may not be common in countries like China where education is state funded, many internationals educated in the US (including Chinese) do give back to their US colleges. Most universities have developed aggressive fund raising efforts targeted at their international alumni; some like UCLA raising millions annually from their Asian alumni.

Overall, it is indisputable that China currently contributes billions of dollars annually to the US higher education system, especially valuable at a time of decreased budgets, lower endowment returns and reduced alumni giving.

As far as your criticism of the educational backgrounds of Chinese applicants, especially parental involvement, how is that negative?

By current international standards, Chinese high school students are the top performers in the world, far ahead of their US counterparts. They blow away the competition in math, science and language comprehension. Most speak at least one foreign language, something sorely lacking in the US. So what if playing the piano or the violin is a common EC among Chinese applicants? It takes thousands of hours to become proficient and it certainly requires tremendous dedication. How is playing baseball a better indicator of future achievement?

The fact is right now, Chinese applicants are extraordinarily successful being admitted to the most selective colleges in the US including HYPSM. The MIT, Harvard, Caltech and Princeton math teams are dominated by Chinese nationals who swiped all the top awards at the Math Olympiads. I believe we should admire their success rather than try to disparage it. Without the continuous supply of Chinese (and other international) engineers and scientists to this country, technological innovation would grind to a halt. Combining the Chinese work ethic with American ingenuity is apparently a winning formula judging from the success of many returning alumni, many of which are perfectly happy to give back to their alma-maters in the US. With China having the fastest increase in the number of billionaires, many of which are trained in the US, contributions to US colleges from Chinese philanthropists are bound to rise dramatically over the coming decades. The Wu's, Fu's and Zhang's highlighted earlier are just the tip of the iceberg.

xcitfan

Cellardweller,
I agree generally with your well-articulated points, but I still see a differentiation between Asian kids who are here already, going to US high schools and usually citizens, and the kids who are coming directly into college from China, where there appears to be a well-oiled machinery in place to falsify essays, test scores, language proficiecies, and other selection factors. If someone has cheated so thoroughly to get into college, do we really want them there? As I have mentioned in earlier posts, my kids go to a STEM magnet and hang mostly with Asian kids, so this is not an anti-Asian or anti-Chinese rant. But there are credible stories about rampant cheating inside China to get into US schools.

cellardweller

I am well aware of these stories. I am also aware of that many colleges have taken steps to limit problems in the future by refusing to work with agents who take large fees and commissions from applicants. Not all schools have perfected the admission of Chinese applicants, but the situation is improving. It never was a real issue at the top schools anyway which always were very selective. I know that my own alma-mater, MIT, will independently verify transcripts, international math and science awards, and personally interview each applicant. It would be virtually impossible to cheat in that process.

It would be a completely disproportionate response to prevent many highly qualified students from applying and attending because a minority have been found cheating on essays and recommendations. If one were to deny admission to all applicants who had somebody else write the essay, many US applicants would also be denied. There is no evidence of large scale cheating on the SAT for instance, where many Chinese will score extremely high. Same thing with transcripts which typically show grades in the 70s and 80s, because of the very severe grading in Chinese high schools. There is probably more cheating on the SAT in the US than in China as recent scandals in Long Island, NY have shown. Grade inflation is also rampant across US high schools.

There is no doubt that plenty of highly qualified Chinese students are applying to US colleges and merit to be admitted. They are rapidly becoming the most visible segment of the international student community. Their financial contribution is a major shot in the arm to the severely stressed US higher education system. Asians in general and Chinese in particular were always highly present in US graduate schools, it is just a more recent phenomenon that are now applying for undergraduate studies as well. This will certainly have very positive implications in the long run, especially considering the geopolitical issues and global rivalries between the US and China. People who study, work and live together are much more likely to understand each others point of view and resolve their differences peacefully.

xcitfan

Well said, cellardweller; thanks for the additional insights.

dragonmom

I think that what may have been a small minority of cheaters has escalated into a big funnel of families who can pay for someone to get their kid into a top US college. If your ethic in your home state means something different than here in the US, "cheating" on entrance exams, essays, etc is what is expected. You do what the advisors say to do. Your kid gets in to a good US college, your family can probably benefit later.

cellardweller

There is no evidence that there is a big funnel of cheaters getting their way into "top colleges". Most of the known abuses have centered around second and third tier colleges without the resources for proper verification. I certainly have not seen any evidence, even anecdotal, of "top" colleges admitting undeserving Chinese students. While embarrassing cases of forged applications resulting in improper admission have been reported even at Harvard, so far all the cases involve US applicants, not internationals.

There is on the other hand, plenty of evidence of unscrupulous intermediaries charging uninformed Chinese families huge fees to get their kids into third tier colleges which already admit nearly all applicants.