heerothewizard

I'm a Junior ('08), and I'm considering applying to Claremonts next year. I'm a girl, so I'm considering Scripps, but that's another category all together.

I was wondering what makes CMC & Pomona different. Obviously, CMC is very big into leadership, IR, government, etc, which appeals to me because I'm interested in IR. On the other hand, I'm also thinking about double majoring in IR & Bio, so I was wondering
1) how strong the bio department is at CMC and at the Claremonts in general,
2) how the joint science program works,
3) if it's even possible (read: feasible) to double major,
4) what makes CMC's IR/Gov't/etc so great,
5) why do people choose Pomona > CMC or CMC > Pomona,
6) what's the difference (if there is one) in general atmosphere between the 2,
and last but not least: if you're a current CMC/Pomona/Scripps student, what're 2 things you most enjoy about your college, and what are 2 things you wish were different?

Thanks!

Elizzan87

Firstly, CMC and Pomona are both GREAT schools. If it comes down to either of the two for you- CONGRADS!

1,2: Yes, CMC is known for Gov, Econ, Ir... But those often detract from how good the science program is at CMC. Well, I guess my last statement is misleading. CMC, Scripps, and Pitzer came together- pooled their resources- and created a single science dept. If you go to any of those schools, you will take all of your science classes in this joint science building. Though I am not a bio major, i know many. They are working very very hard and claim that the sciences are top knotch. I know one fact that i was very impressed with when i heard it from a faculty member a few weeks back: Last year, 90% of med school applicants from CMC got in to their top 1 or 2 school. Yeah, wow!

3) It is easier to dual major rather than double. Dual allows you to take off a couple requirements on each major. Double makes you do all the classes required for each major. The difference could be around 4 classes- a semester.

4) Hard question. 18 students per class. 99% of professors have PhDs. Professors are very known in their field are are accomplished in their own right. Professors are your friends; they are good teachers... I don't know why exactly our dept. is sooo good. It just is.

5) Campus life/ Campus environment/ Social Life/ GEs. Both schools you'll get an amazing education. It is just where you feel more comfortable. I will refer you to other thread posts- i know for sure in the other thread about CMC v. Pomona- for more information about this.

6) I'll refer you to other thread posts at both schools where they talk about social life on campus.

mariw

My son loves the 5Cs but may not have the scores for Pomona or CMC since their SAT avereages were so high this year. I think he could get into Pitzer, and his academic interest is an intercollegiate program anyway, so he would be with a lot of students from all the colleges, but Pitzer seems like it draws quite a different type of kid from Pomona or CMC. Do a lot of kids use Pitzer as their safeties when they really want to be at Pomona or CMC? My son has no "activist" in him; he's more the contemplative type, so I'm not sure he could be happy at Pitzer, yet it would be a way for him to have the 5C experience. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Elizzan87

Personally, I would not go to Pitzer just because you son wants to be in the 5Cs and can't get in to CMC or Pomona. Pitzer is not a back-up school within the 5Cs. It is a specialized college like the others in the 5Cs and offers a different academic, social, and political environment than any other of the 5Cs. While some students may apply to CMC and Pitzer, I do not know of any students who the deciding schools for them is CMC and Pitzer/ Pomona and Pitzer.

You mentioned your son is interested in an intercollegiate program. Great. But he will most likely need to take GEs and have other requirements within the college- that is an important aspect.

Each of the 5Cs is unique. Many students at CMC did not apply to any other 5C and I think it is the same for Pomona.

Your son should spend a night and go to classes at Pitzer. The next day, when he wakes up, he'll know if it is the school for him.

Pitzer is a great institutuion and would not claim it to be a 5C backup. I think it is psychologically destructive to go to a school because it borders your #1 school. I would not go to Pitzer with the mindset of "i am going to study at CMC, make all my friends at CMC, eat only at CMC.... and still go to Pitzer"

Hope this helps.

theboneyking.

My understanding is that IR is very different at CMC and Pomona. IR at Pomona is more about international studies, and focuses on studying different cultures. IR at CMC is more about international strategy and diplomacy. Obviously there is some overlap there (I'm sure Pomona does include some diplomacy and I know that some CMC IR classes involve studying cultures), but it's still a pretty big difference.

Student615

"Do a lot of kids use Pitzer as their safeties when they really want to be at Pomona or CMC?"

- Yes. But if you check out recent Pitzer threads, it turns out that it's not a very good plan at all. Pitzer is, as Elizzan stated quite well, a specialized college with a unique atmosphere, mission, and student body. This year's admissions decisions made it clearer than ever that the school is looking for students who clearly "fit," and will accept those students over applicants with higher numbers. An applicant who doesn't demonstrate serious interest in the school and commitment to its values seems to stand a pretty low chance, regardless of stats. And as Elizzan also pointed out, using Pitzer as a safety is fine, but using it as a "backdoor" into Claremont is just setting yourself up for frustration.

ETA: Let me qualify my initial "yes." I think a lot of students PLAN on doing this, but not nearly as many actually do it. Certainly some do, but once you visit it becomes clear that the schools are quite different (academics totally aside), making this a less appealing plan.

gadad

If you majored in IR at CMC, could you augment the diplomacy focus of your curriculum with some culturally-based IR courses at Pomona?

RedSox1988

you can always take classes at any of the 5c's, so you can definately take those classes, and they can fit in to your IR major as long as they meet CMC disrtribution requirements.

madmordekai

There seems to be a lot of questions going on in this thread and I can't tell which responses are coming from parents of prospective students, prospective students, or Claremont students themselves. Just to make things clear I'm a student at CMC.

Addressing international relations departments' differences (between CMC and Pomona): it is true, CMC is more about international diplomacy and theory whereas Pomona is more about cultural studies and places a heavier stress on foreign languages (from what I've seen). In terms of quality of the programs I'm not really in a position to say. From what I've seen the quality of classes/professors and the general eagerness to learn within each student body is highly variable.

On Pitzer: (to mariw) your son shouldn't be discouraged from applying to both Pitzer and CMC or Pitzer and Pomona. As independent schools the Claremont Colleges are remarkably interconnected and, depending on what your son is interested in, he will find most anything he needs--he can go as far as majoring through another of the colleges which involves taking all of his major classes through the other college. But then again, as someone mentioned earlier, Pitzer's admissions does a good job of identifying applicants who are true "fits" with the college's culture and mission (which is something along the lines of social justice/awareness and sculpting).

On double-majoring: (to heerothewizard) When you come to college I can nearly guarantee that your interests and emphasis will change but until then I can say that the double major bio and IR would be difficult but doable. I don't know of anyone doing that but I'd recommend the EEP major as an alternative (http://www.jsd.claremont.edu/Majors/EEP.asp). I have a few friends doing it and they love it. It has a similar application process during the sophomore year as PPE does but it's also self-selective and I'm pretty sure that nearly everyone who applies for it gets in. And the joint science department has quality professors (I would know-I just took both semesters of introbio this last semester). I think that was one of your questions?

But, if you're interested in premed (as a sense you are-for what other reason would you explain the IR-bio double major) it's competitive as it is at every school. You'll find similar attitudes and rigorous grading at Pomona and Joint Science.

I'm too tired to think of 2 things I like most and 2 things I'd change. I just got home from finals week and I'm going to sleep.
I wish you ease in your college application and decision process and never think the process is a measure of your value as a person for that is a huge, massive lie!

sebuk

I agree with Student615; Pitzer seems to be looking for a certain profile, and add to that the fact that they are becoming increasingly selective, admitting only 26% this year, so I wouldn't rely on it as a Claremont consortium safety school.

My daughter will be heading to Pitzer this fall, and she doesn't fit the "hippie activist" stereotype at all- in fact very few of the kids we met there did - she met people working hard at what they believed in, which for some of them was activist in nature. Once we got to Pitzer she felt completely at home - the students she met were truly thoughtful. I think she fits in a different way - she's an independent thinker who won't embrace anyone else's agenda, left or right, and is passionate about learning. So send your son to visit and he'll know whether it's the right place for him or not.

littlebopeep

You're all getting it. Each Claremont has things that they are looking for. Applying to one you think is easier to get into just so you can "attend" another is a bad idea. They all have general requirements and things they want their students to leave with. While there are students who would be happy at two or three of the schools, I can't imagine anyone who could fit at all 5. And while you can take classes at the other schools, there is usually a limit (about 1/3).
Oh, and Pitzer is not all "hippie." These are students who want to make a difference and are interested in really creating their own education.

Student615

Well said, though the off-campus course 'limit' (in quotes because there's a fair bit of grey area to this rule) is generally a bit higher

1190

CMC vs Pomona

Very evident difference in student body as soon as you walk on campuses. Think HS student body president/model congress-UN/debate (Claremont) vs editor of literary mag/captain math team/Intel competitor (Pomona). Overall academics very strong at both. Bio (and all sciences) clearly stronger at Pomona.

mariw:

Pitzer has a significantly (and disconcerting) lower graduation rate than the rest of the 5C's - possibly because it has been used in the past as a "back-up" to other more competitive consortium schools by some (?). I agree with Student615 that it would generally be a mistake to apply there as a way in to the 5Cs rather than as a destination in and of itself. Pitzer certainly has much to offer (as many are discovering) with applications and entrance requirements way up in the past few years.

madamebovary

um well seeing that you are interested in BIO-the joint science center shared by scripps, CMC, and pitzer does a wonderful job of preparing you. I think Pomona does a great job too- so overall any of the five will do just fine. Just apply to all five because admission now a days are so hard.

Student615

"Just apply to all five because admission now a days are so hard."

Definitely, definitely not, unless you're actually interested in all five (which seems pretty unlikely, as there are huge differences between the schools). Claremont is not just one big, uniform place with multiple entrances...the schools are unique and distinct.