roadlesstraveled

I'm sure that if Midd was able to award scholarships to black students (or even merit awards), then Midd's minority population would be equal to Colgate's]]

Probably not.

I’ve spoken to many Black students on this very issue. Midd is in VT and like Dartmouth, which I’m more than familiar with, believe the colleges are “in the middle of nowhere.” Williams has the same issue. Blacks with great SAT and gpas have plethora colleges to choose from. In a sense, they can afford to ignore Midd, Dartmouth, etc.

While Colagte is also rural, it's still in NY and only a few hours from the city.

arcadia

Colgate is just as rural as Middlebury. The only difference is perception. Mapquest says it takes 4 hours and 25 minutes to get from Hamilton to NYC. Mapquest has a driving time of 4 hours, 59 minutes from NYC to Middlebury. Driving time from Middlebury to Burlington is 45 minutes, and Middlebury to Montreal is 2 hours 45 minutes.

roadlesstraveled

Colgate is just as rural as Middlebury. The only difference is perception]]

No disagreement there. Perception becomes reality.

I have a Black female friend who turned down Midd for Mt Holyoke. When asked, why Holyoke over Midd, she will proclaim every time “Midd is in the middle of nowhere”

When Blacks look at Midd, they don't look at drive times but the "northerness" of the college in relation to others. Vt is also preceived to be much colder.
I've never said any of the reasoning was rational

gellino

One, I agree that a lot of the difference between rural VT and rural NY is perception, but Midd's proximity to Montreal and Burlington doesn't matter much, it's "perceived" proximity to NYC that would matter more to blacks applying.

I'm not exactly sure what the most updated policies at Colgate and the Patriot League in general are on athletic scholarships, but I don't believe that the % of black students has increased in the last five years compared to when Colgate definitely couldn't award sports scholarships to blacks or anyone else for that matter. Maybe, someone would have stats to disprove this notion?

thetruth

>>>>>>I'm not exactly sure what the most updated policies at Colgate and the Patriot League in general are on athletic scholarships, but I don't believe that the % of black students has increased in the last five years compared to when Colgate definitely couldn't award sports scholarships to blacks or anyone else for that matter. Maybe, someone would have stats to disprove this notion?

No stats but your notion is correct. scholarships are only 2 years old. if anything, the fear would be that black enrollment would go down if you are no longer limiting aid for socioeconomic reasons.

gellino

I would think that black enrollment could go up once additional sports scholarships would be made available. I think that was the implication the guy earlier on this thread supporting Midd was making. I'm really curious what % black the football team is now vs four years ago to see what the impact of the presence of scholarships is.

roadlesstraveled

I think that was the implication the guy earlier on this thread supporting Midd was making.]]

Correct.

You might find this interesting. Midd accepted 43%, on average, more Blacks than Colgate over the past decade

http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/47_bl..._colleges.html

gellino

That is the article I was referring to that is somewhere pasted above. The 71% to 28% (Midd/'Gate) difference is only for 2004. The decade difference was 68% for Midd and 39% for Colgate.

roadlesstraveled

The 71% to 28% (Midd/'Gate) difference is only for 2004]

How right you are. I stand corrected.

mhc48

Uhm....so all of this data on admitted black applicants (but nothing about the number of enrolled students, or recruited black students or number of students on teams or number of black students on athletic scholarship ) proves........what again???

And for heaven sakes, I'm not challenging either position. I don't even understand what the positions are here.

ridethecliche

"And for heaven sakes, I'm not challenging either position. I don't even understand what the positions are here."

Well my dad can beat up your dad, how's that for a position :-P

gellino

The positions are what the reasons for Colgate's receipt of 4x the # of black applicants that Middlebury does and how much of its relates to a higher level of sports played at Colgate than Middlebury vs other factors and the very recent transition to a limited # of sports scholarships at Colgate and how much this may additionally impact black applicants. Someone above was contending that Colgate only attracts more black applicants because it has D-I sports and I was contending that's not very much of the reason.