mhc48

I was just checking the Colgate website and noticed some curious stats, which indicate that in this year where there have been so many articles about students applying to more and more schools, Colgate's apps and some statistics of admitted students seem to have dropped a bit.

Apps 2010: 7872 2009: 8008
Accepted 2010: 2205 2009: 2163
SAT Mid 50% 2010: 650- 740/660-740 2009: 660-740/670-740
ACT Mid 50% 2010: 29-33 2009: 30 -33

Other stats tho have gone up a bit

Average GPA 2010: 3.71 2009: 3.69
Class Rank 2010:83% 95% in top 20% 2009: 80% 93% in top 20%
(% in top 10%)

Also 2% more from private school than last year. Any thoughts? I know that last year was a record breaker for Colgate in largest applicant pool, but is there more to this than a 1 year blip?

ticklemepink

It's not really by much. So I don't think they're too concerned. Especially that one of the dorms has finally been moved out of its "forced triple" status!

mhc48

It's not so much the number of apps (down slightly under 2%) or the number of acceptances (up 1%) nor even the slightly lower scores of some of those accepted, as that this is coming in during the year when people are talking about the "perfect storm" of college application growth.

gellino

I think it's a little concerning. Not so much that apps are down 2% (because last year was such an extreme record breaker) and apps are still up 20% over the last two years. It's more of a concern that they had to accept more (despite less applicants) and test scores were down a little. There also may be a lag effect here. While students could check the most recent figures on individual college websites(sometimes more hidden than others), anyone comparing colleges using Princeton Review guidebook type of reference data would still see SAT and admit % info from the class of 2008 stats when they were applying; so the vastly improved class of 2009 info may not be fully absorbed into the applicant consciousness until next year's class applies. But it is a little concerning with regard to the "perfect storm of admissions" comment.

rsporter2001us

Has anyone thought that one reason for the little slip in grades is because that they are taking more scholarship athletes then ever; and they are trying to balance the numbers with more students.

Hansel

That could have an effect.
Another thing to consider is that the SAT was changed for this year's class

mhc48

Actually, Road, I just read that Amherst (2%) and Harvard (1.6%) also had a decrease in apps this year.

roadlesstraveled

{{The year when people are talking about the "perfect storm" of college application growth.}}

The trickle down effect will be coming to an end in future (i.e not many) years. It’s no secret many who are attending Midd (I don’t want to offend anyone here) were denied at Dartmouth, Williams, and Amherst etc. In a few short years as the number of apps decrease, more and more students will be admitted to their 1st 2nd 3rd choice schools and the colleges down the pecking order will no longer have the benefit of having the top kids somewhat be forced to matriculate b/c it was the best ( ranking wise, kids and parents care) college they were admitted to.

This is one reason colleges are feverishly attempting to increase their ranking now b/c the higher up the rankings a college becomes, the more apps and the greater yield the college experiences.

e.g. Colby is a backup to Midd, Bowdoin, et al at the present time (yeah I know, Colby is many students 1st choice. Forget about that for demonstration purposes) But should Colby become ranked # 9, all of a sudden it’s no longer considered a back-up school but becomes a 1st choice top ten college ( the prestige whore syndrome)---and yield and apps increase.

Colgate is having an issue b/c their aid is notoriously horrible. Not the amount met to those who receive aid, but the actual number who are accepted and are given financial help. Only 30% of those attending Colgate receive any form of financial help--the lowest of any college I know of. Think about it, if you were a student who knew that you could only afford Colgate if a substantial amount of your costs were subsidized by the college, but only 3 out of 10 students are offered aid (which means Colgate uses ability to pay as an admission criterion) your incentive for applying to Colgate certainly wouldn’t be as great as alternative colleges (and higher in the rankings) that offer aid to 50-70% of their admits.

{{I think it's a little concerning. Not so much that apps are down 2% }}

I don't know of another top LAC that had a decrease in apps. This year had the largest app pool of any year to date.

roadlesstraveled

Road, I just read that Amherst (2%) and Harvard (1.6%) also had a decrease in apps this year.}}

I knew about Harvard, I said LAC. Where did you see the Amherst #? I heard otherwise but may be wrong.

jrpar

Colgate admissions views this year's dip as statistically insignificant - 136 less applications. Instead they view it as a good thing that applications are still up at the level of last year's significant 22% increase in applications from the year before.

roadlesstraveled

Colgate admissions views this year's dip as statistically insignificant - 136 less applications. }}


I agree. The issue will be in the years ahead and if colleges down the ranking pecking order can maintain the same level of matriculating students. I go back to my previous comment; if a student gets accepted to Midd, and Amherst , Williams or Dartmouth (Midds greatest percentage of college cross admits) the student who today may have to go to Midd, will tomorrow possibly be accepted, due to far fewer apps, at the aforementioned colleges and matriculate to one of the competitive schools. The same holds true for every college. Williams will lose students to the Ivies that otherwise would have enrolled at Williams in today’s environment


An admission officer at a top LAC informed me an interesting false stat scam some colleges are doing is counting students who submit the initial app online (but never follow up with their transcript etc) in the number of applications who *applied*--never mind they changed their mind and looked elsewhere.

My own kid did just that at a few colleges. After more consideration, she decided a few particular colleges weren’t for her and wouldn’t attend even if accepted, so she never had anything sent from the h/s, or her essay etc. Wes was one, curiously. Of course I was out 50 bucks per college if they didn’t have a free app policy, as Colgate does now

gellino

I don't know how many additional scholarship athletes they're taking to assess what effect it may have on admissions. I think the target class size is remaining constant at ~ 730, so you are right to think that it may be a contributing factor. The new SAT shouldn't have any bearing because, except for the new writing section, I don't think the rest of the test or the scoring has changed at all.

mhc48

There's two different issues being discussed here: the minor drop in apps and the also minor drop in grades.

If the drop in grades/SAT/ACT is intentional to recruit and attract athletes, that's okay. Other schools in the Patriot League have been doing that for a while and it's had results not only in their sports teams but in the corresponding rise in name recognition and consequent standing of those schools. If Colgate is wants to take on some athletes whose grades are marginally less, but wind up increasing name recognition and recapturing some of their prestige that way, well and good. Certainly lots of other schools do that. OTOH, the drop may also be attributable to the drop in apps, and the resulting necessity of accepting a class from that pool, which pool had lower grades.

But the drop in apps is a different story and not explainable by the desire to recruit. (except I guess you might say, as other schools reputations have increased, Colgate has lost applicants to them).

Then again I may well have sparked much ado about nothing. It's only one year and a small drop. I'm surprised no one has yet told me to chill out and wait for more data. So I'll say it myself.

thetruth

>>>>> I think it's a little concerning. Not so much that apps are down 2% (because last year was such an extreme record breaker) and apps are still up 20% over the last two years. It's more of a concern that they had to accept more (despite less applicants) and test scores were down a little.

i would venture it has to do with the increase in minorities enrolling.

>>>>>Has anyone thought that one reason for the little slip in grades is because that they are taking more scholarship athletes then ever; and they are trying to balance the numbers with more students'

the number of athletes accepted went down with scholarships, and supposedly they are smarter.

>>>>>Colgate is having an issue b/c their aid is notoriously horrible. Not the amount met to those who receive aid, but the actual number who are accepted and are given financial help. Only 30% of those attending Colgate receive any form of financial help--the lowest of any college I know of. Think about it, if you were a student who knew that you could only afford Colgate if a substantial amount of your costs were subsidized by the college, but only 3 out of 10 students are offered aid (which means Colgate uses ability to pay as an admission criterion) your incentive for applying to Colgate certainly wouldn’t be as great as alternative colleges (and higher in the rankings) that offer aid to 50-70% of their admits.

get the facts straight. according to usnews 44% of colgate students get financial aid. check out middlebury and williams for a lower percentage of 42%. for a really poor school, how about washington and lee at 31%.

ridethecliche

I actually did the initial send in but no followed materials for swarthmore, vassar and a few other schools. It's kinda funny if they counted me as a student who wasn't admitted.
Roadlesstravelled, it's funny how your D ended up doing that with wes.

As far as finaid goes, i'm not sure what % of students they give it to, but colgate's finaid award was one of the two most generous ones i received, sadly i won't be going there anyway. Man, debt sucks, but what canya do.