minoafrau

What is the workload like and how is the grading (fair, inflated, deflated, etc.) Specifically, how are the intro math and science courses (typical pre-med requirements). Is it possible to do well and still have a modest social life?

lydia08

I've heard that the grading is quite tough compared to some other schools. Colgate is apparently known for deflation (but since it's known for that, it shouldn't hurt you when applying for graduate school). In a typical graduating class of around 675, there are usually 1-4 students with a 4.0 or above. A 3.6 and up would put you around the top 100 in the class. 303 in the class of 2008 had a 3.3 and up (141 had a 3.3-3.5, 131 had a 3.5-3.8 and 37 had a 3.8 or higher).

Intro math/sci courses are usually graded on a curve, though they're not a typical bell curve with a C average, necessarily (it depends on the prof, I believe). I took Calculus I my senior year after not taking any math for 5 years and did very well. It all depends how much effort you're willing to put in (doing homework, meeting with the prof. during office hours, etc.).

Pretty much all the students on campus are very involved with extra-curricular activities, so if you count those as a social life, then pretty much everyone has one! It all depends on you... if you want straight As and take challenging courses, it's probably going to be a ton of work no matter where you go. If you're happy with Bs, it's probably a bit more flexible. It also depends to a huge degree on what you're studying and your natural aptitude for that subject, your time-management/organizational skills, study skills, how quickly you learn, learning style, prof's teaching style, etc. There are people who do nothing but work and get Bs, there are others who seem to barely ever study for tests and get As. So... there is no real answer, unfortunately, but I think it's usually possible.

ticklemepink

Deflation!!! I worked my butt off in every single one of my courses and my GPA barely budged during my time there. People complain about my department (history) being tough compared to theirs... *shrugs* As long it doesn't hurt my grad school chances, I'm proud of my GPA.

I do think some departments have a bit of grade inflation but for most part... deflation, deflation... I think the sciences hold the curve at B-. The profs are very much all about "Learning is more important than your grade."

But nevetheless, everyone has a social life.

Papa Chicken

I'll back up the deflation thing. Have a S at Colgate, and I recruit there, among other LACs and universities, mostly from the sciences. Compared to other schools, Colgate's GPA's are most definitely tempered downward. But if I can figure this out after a few years of recruiting, then other recruiting organizations & grad schools must know this as well. The Colgate kids (from the resumes I see & meet) are very well rounded and typically have a robust EC life.

jiess

Wait... Colgate marks on a bell curve?!

Modadunn

No. If you read the post it says it is NOT a typical Bell Curve with a C average.

lydia08

Some intro math/econ/psych classes grade on a "curve," depending on the professor, though it's not necessarily a C-average bell curve. It's up to the discretion of the professor what kind of grading rubric they use. Other classes that are less objective in grading can be very, very different. Class size also matters, as a larger class will tend to naturally have a wider distribution of grades and a smaller, upper-level seminar class with 4 students probably won't (so if there's 4 of you and you all do A/B level work, no one will get stuck with a C just for the sake of a curve). I know professors are encouraged to distribute grades fairly evenly, but I took a senior seminar where all 12 of us in the class got an A or A- (though it certainly wasn't an easy class at all...).

Colgate is known for its tough grading, though, especially among grad schools (so I've heard), so don't get scared off!

gellino

Colgate is generally known for grade deflation. In the Berkeley law school study (whose merits have been widely debated pro and con in threads on here), Colgate is rated the fourth toughest grading school (after Swarthmore, JHU, something else I forget).

Grade inflation has certainly set in to some extent more recently as the comparable numbers from my graduating class from the previous decade were 13 over 3.8 GPA (top 2%), 90 over 3.5 GPA (top 13%) and 189 over 3.3 GPA (top 28%). At the time, Chem 101 had an avg grade of C+, Calc III had avg grade of B-/C+ and Econ 101 had avg grade of B-. Maybe, if lydia has taken any of these classes she could confirm to what extent it's changed now.

DadofB&G

According to D's LSAC law school report, the percentage distribution of GPA's at Colgate is:

GPA %
4.0 0
3.8-3.99 5
3.6-3.79 10
3.4-3.59 18
3.2-3.39 26
3.0-3.19 17
2.8-2.99 13
2.6-2.79 6
2.4-2.59 2
Below 2.4 3

I think I read that these numbers are based on a period of several years, but I can't find the reference now.

Even though three quarters of the class graduates with a B or better average, no one has an A average (remember that Colgate grades on a 4.33 basis), and less than 15% can say they have an A-.

jiess

Thanks for the replies on the grade distribution.

-n00b question ahead-


Wouldn't grade deflation potentially hurt you if you graduate and try to enter the workforce immediately? Also, even with grad schools that are familiar with Coglate's marking, how much would they take that into consideration?

Papa Chicken

jiess-- again, coming from an employer who recently started recruiting from Colgate, no, the grade deflation would not hurt you if the employer, like a grad school, knows of Colgate's deflation situation. I started learning about Colgate's deflation when reading student recommendations from professors, who flat out told me about Colgate's deflation policies. As I started seeing greater numbers of resumes from Colgate applicants, I further calibrated my GPA expectations specific to Colgate, rather than some kind of universal comparison between schools. I expect that organizations that have a history of recruiting from Colgate have a decent understanding of Colgate's deflation and GPA distribution. That distribution also varies between majors.

Bottom line is that I wouldn't worry too much about what outside entities might think because those familiar with the caliber of Colgate kids and Colgate's deflation policies know how to judge Colgate's GPAs.

As a side note, again coming from an employer, just like college admissions, we look for much more than just GPA. Yes, a strong GPA will get your resume read, but its the other aspects of one's experience, interests, communications abilities, leadership potential, etc. that gets an applicant a job. In my perhaps biased experience, Colgate seems to select & develop the kind of kids I like to hire...smart, but street savvy and world-aware (even though there are not that many streets in Hamilton!)

bluebayou

anyone know the average (four-year) gpa of the graduating seniors? Based on Lydia's numbers, ~45% (303/675) of the class had a B+ or better, which on the surface doesn't seem to harsh. (Of course, compared to a certain college in Cambridge or Palo Alto....)

Dad: those are some interesting numbers particualrly since law school applicants tend to be from the humanities and social sciences which, in most colleges, has a higher grade distribution than the sciences. Plus, Gate doesn't have an Engineering program which is a grade killer at most colleges.

jiess: For the most part, employers don't care that much about small differences in gpa (3.3 vs. a 3.1). Professional schools (med/law/dent) care (almost) solely about grades and test scores, period. At least in laws school admissions, a stronger test score can partially offset a somewhat lower gpa; dunno about med. Non-professional grad schools are much more interested in your research and other stuff, where a LAC really shines.

jiess

Splitters (high GPA, low LSAT or vice versa) aren't uncommon, but they have mixed results applying to law schools. Some institutions (Berkeley?) will let a low GPA go ignored if you have a high LSAT, but others will not. To law schools, a 180 on your LSAT means you CAN do the work, but a 4.0 means you WILL. Since there's no universal comparison between grading policies and subsequent GPAs (just like how there isn't with high schools...ugh), law school adcoms can't be too liberal with their estimates while comparing candidate A from Hamilton and candidate B from Palo Alto. I'm just scared a deflated Colgate GPA would hurt me.

DadofB&G

bluebayou,

The Lsac report shows the distribution of all students' grades from Colgate, not just the law school applicants. This point of the report is to put the applicants from different schools in their respective contexts. So, the data answers you question re average 4-year GPA's.

Also, I'm not 100% sure about the GPA's of humanities students vs. math/science students. I don't have statistics at hand, but I recall recently reading a press release from my son's school (another selective LAC), about the students elected to Phi Beta Kappa - most of them were science majors, and GPA is the major determining factor.

jiess,

Law schools supposedly don't care much about where you got your degree - they are more interested in the absolute GPA and LSAT. On the other hand, the LSAC report shows the grade distributions, so the law schools are provided with comparative data. I don't know if they use them.

Maybe my D could have gotten into a few higher ranked law schools if her GPA was higher, but her LSAT score seemed to be more the determining factor in her case. I think if she had gone to a much easier school and had a 3.9-4.0, one or two more schools would have opened up for her, but then her college experience would have been much different.

jiess

Dad,


Where can I find the LSAC report...? I'm looking under the Research/Data heading but I can't find anything on GPA. I'd like to see what it says about inflation/deflation at my prospective colleges.