"Race" in College Admission FAQ & Discussion 9 - Page 6

tokenadult · 11-06-2011, 12:15 PM

^ ^^ ^^^ ^^^^ Everyone is welcome to participate here, as long as they follow the terms of service, but my general observation about discussions of all issues in all places is that comments with the words "you" or "they" can often benefit from rewriting, and speculation about other people's opinions or motivations are rarely helpful for advancing the conversation. On my part, I assume I don't know why other people think the way they think, and invite participants here to bring up each participant's OWN reasons for supporting one policy or another, without speculating about other people's reasons for supporting one policy or another.

Before I edit a post farther upthread with the same link I post here, I invite everyone's attention to a bibliography posted in Wikipedia userspace

User:WeijiBaikeBianji/AnthropologyHumanBiologyRaceCitations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

with quite a few citations to the HUGE literature on various related issues. (Most of this literature, alas, is not reflected in any of the Wikipedia articles on those issues.) Plenty of trees have been felled to provide the paper for writing about these ever-contentious issues. I hope our use of electrons here promotes thoughtful discussion and checking better sources for facts.

Shrinkrap · 11-06-2011, 12:58 PM

That looks like a great resource! Thanks!

performersmom · 11-06-2011, 01:01 PM

token, thanks for the great link in #76- lots of great stuff there.

And I so appreciate your putting all this together for CC.

CCsniper · 11-06-2011, 02:59 PM

Affirmative action is by far one of the most blatant examples of racism towards asians in America.

Please see the featured article for details: http://racerelations.about.com/od/th...iversities.htm

1. Many claim that affirmative action increase diversity of ideas in Academia and promotes a competent workforce. They also cite that the lack of affirmative action favors Asian Americans. They directly suggests that Asian Americans do NOT have innovative ideas in Academia and are incompetent in the workforce.

2. Affirmative Action will help raise the level of Hispanics and Black students in institutions. Again, all of this is possible because Affirmative Action effectively kick out BETTER QUALIFIED Asian American students; these Asians would have been accepted in the absence of Affirmative Action.

We all know that the idea that Asians do not contribute in Academia or are incompetent professionals is simply false. Asian Americans have the highest income and college degree rates out of any racial group in America.

Someone please tell me why Asian Americans should support such examples of racism. Please give a rational argument why we should not marshall considerable amounts of resources lobbying for the abolition of Affirmative Action. It is not hard; victories in California and Florida show that it is possible.

gallaghergirl · 11-06-2011, 03:47 PM

good luck.........

annasdad · 11-06-2011, 04:23 PM

Quote:

William Fitzsimmons, dean of admissions at Harvard ... called successful applicants to Harvard “good all-arounders – academically, extracurricularly and personally,” and he stressed the importance of demonstrating humanity and three-dimensionality in one’s college application. “I want to know, what is it this person does beside chew gum and produce good grades or scores?”

...

Jonathan Burdick, dean of admissions at the University of Rochester ... said that inquisitive students characterized his ideal, those who might “step up beyond the received wisdom of Lady Gaga and actually think about what she says.”

'The Ideal High School Graduate' - NYTimes.com[]

Yet,

Quote:

Yale Law professor Amy Chua ... lists all the fun things she denied her kids, the thousands of hours of academic and musical drill, and her generous helpings of shame.

Google

Do you suppose that denying your kids fun things and subjecting them to thousands of hours of drill and generous helpings of shame is a positive or negative factor in developing "humanity and three-dimensionality" and the ability to "step up beyond the received wisdom of Lady Gaga and actually think about what she says?"

candlelightkva · 11-06-2011, 04:24 PM

i'm asian. arguing against AA would make me self-prideful, etc. but honestly, if the situation were reversed, say black or hispanic dominating colleges because of their cultural work ethic, etc. i'd be okay with it. and would be against AA for asians.

but since colleges are looking to create "diversity" and host environments friendly to everyone as well as of different cultures, i suppose it's okay.

i will say it's unfair. but i think it's a erroneous to believe college admissions were ever fair.

candlelightkva · 11-06-2011, 04:25 PM

@annasdad, you said nothing about AA.
you're just insulting asian parenting. valid argument but wrong place.

annasdad · 11-06-2011, 04:42 PM

Nope, not insulting Asian parenting, just commenting that it may not produce the most desirable candidates for highly selective holistic-admissions colleges. The AA argument always comes down to "Asians who got higher test scores didn't get in, it must be AA that's taking the Asian spots." So the kind of parenting that leads to high test scores is the issue.

20more · 11-06-2011, 05:01 PM

Asian American Students

1. Every Asian American goes to test prep schools
2. Asian Americans work hard only because of parental pressure
3. Asian Americans do ECs only for college admissions
4. Asian Americans are math drones and they have nothing to offer
5. Every Asian parents are Tiger Parents
6. No Asian American suffer from hardship or racism
7. All Asian Americans are prestige obsessed
8. Asian Americans cannot display anger or frustration. If you do, be prepared to hear “Life is not fair” or “Get over it”.
9. Asian Americans can never be “Americans”

tokenadult · 11-06-2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCsniper

Please give a rational argument why we should not marshall considerable amounts of resources lobbying for the abolition of Affirmative Action.

The thread you opened has been merged into the main FAQ and Discussion thread in the same forum. Rational arguments are very welcome. Let's be civil and follow the terms of service of College Confidential.

P.S. What is the intended implication of the screen name "CCsniper"?

fabrizio · 11-06-2011, 05:19 PM

Quote:

The AA argument always comes down to "Asians who got higher test scores didn't get in, it must be AA that's taking the Asian spots."

Not for me. I don't view admissions as "numbers only," nor do I believe that Asians are entitled to "spots." All I'm saying is "let the chips fall where they may." If under a race-blind admissions system, selective university X's incoming class was "only" 2% Asian, so be it. And if it's 42% Asian, so be it.

You can replace Asian with any other group identifier you want, and my stance would still hold.

almost there · 11-06-2011, 07:07 PM

Isn't affirmative action kind of insulting to minorities in general though? I mean take the national achievement scholarship thing. It is literally the national merit scholarship competition for black people but with lower standards. The entire PC idea of affirmative action is racist. It assumes that black or hispanic people aren't smart enough to succeed on their own. It has always seemed kind of absurd to me that the people that are against affirmative action are labeled the racists.

Shrinkrap · 11-06-2011, 08:02 PM

"It assumes that black or hispanic people aren't smart enough to succeed on their own. "

Or it could assume black or Hispanic ( or white, depending who you ask) people don't score "high enough" .

tokenadult · 11-06-2011, 09:25 PM

Depending on what the nature of the affirmative action program is at a particular college, it might just mean that the college thinks that everyone on the campus is better educated if they have classmates from all different {insert kind of group here}. There can be better or worse ways of bringing about a diverse group of students at a college, and for constitutional reasons race-conscious ways of bringing that about are subject to strict scrutiny, but I by no means think that on-campus diversity is a bad idea. It may be a very good idea--it is certainly something I was looking forward to, and learned from, when I left high school to go to college.