keabie18

@lakemom- the financial insufficiency required to back out should not involve a lack of merit aid. Why exactly would an applicant who expects to receive merit aid have a strong desire to apply ED in the first place? There's speculation that ED applicants receive less merit, and if the applicant expects to receive such scholarships, one could assume that they would also expect to be admitted without the "ED boost".

Doing a pre-read that involves evaluating a student's potential for merit aid would probably be difficult for colleges to accomplish in such a short time; it would certainly require a student to apply in what, September? Or would the applicant still apply in November, get the pre-read back in December, sign off on it and then get a decision in most likely February? It would also require increasing the number of "application readers", therefore also likely increasing application fees.

I like the idea of submitting your enrollment deposit at the time of application, to be cashed as soon as the applicant is admitted. These deposits are not cheap (Mine was $850 or so), so it would definitely discourage students from applying ED who are planning on cheating the system. It would also encourage applicants to do further research into whether they believe they can afford the school, and use the EFC calculators that the school provides to give them an estimated cost.

Lafalum84

Exactly. Students, PARENTS and GCs are aware of this from the beginning. ED IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. If you're unsure of your major, if you're still looking for colleges that have the program you want, if you're still looking for other colleges to fall in love with.... DONT APPLY ED.

No one is forced to apply ED. I've never heard of a college where a majority of the students were enrolled through ED. ED is only for people who are absolutely sure of their decision - and that's probably a very small percentage of high school seniors.

notrichenough

Sure, but the student might THINK they are sure.

greenfieldcn

Btw, can I apply for restrictive early action and open early action at the same time like Stanford and MIT? Thanks.

absweetmarie

greenfieldcon: Nope.

BTW, this is kinda right there on the Stanford website.

Dogod11

If you're applying restrictive early action somewhere, you can only apply early action to public schools and you can't apply ED anywhere.

EDIT - And IMO, restrictive early action is much better than ED because it tells the school that it's your first choice (which is the whole point of ED), but also allows you to change your mind later without any issue at all.

ucbalumnus

Stanford's restrictive early action policy is here:
Restrictive Early Action : Stanford University

MIT does not fall under the exceptions (public, early scholarship or special academic program deadline, rolling admissions, or foreign). Presumably, Stanford thinks that it will win nearly all cross-admit battles with the first three categories of exceptions.

Lakemom

@keabie18, ED students may still qualify for merit aid (I just read in the U of Roch forum an ED student was given 11K). Parents who need FA and merit money to cover the majority would take both into account.

I agree with you that putting down a sizable deposit would certainly deter some from applying ED. I don't know how early a student would need to apply but really, it is only the applications of those who are desired by the school are the ones to be prequalified.

If a school get 5K applications, a giant chunk are put in the no go pile with the first pass. They don't all get the same attention. That no go pile gets divided into a deffered pile and a refused pile.

This also reminds me that some schools, if you apply ED, do not let a student go to RD. I think all schools should do that so it is ED or nothing. Make students really have to risk no chance.

marvin100

A few notes (sorry, too busy to get involved in all the possible back-and-forths here):

1. I'm not arguing that all instances of backing out on ED are ethical (according to my view, at least--you can reject the notion that people have varying value systems, but that won't make it any less true). I agree entirely that applying ED in bad faith (ie. with the intention of backing out if another school accepts) is different.

2. Each of the students I mentioned had a decent reason to change their minds between ED app and matriculation--in one case it was financial, in another it was not being admitted to the particular program that drew him to that school, and in the third it was serious second thoughts about the Core Curriculum. Guess what--17- and 18-year olds are fickle and changing rapidly at that age. I'd also like to be clear that I didn't advise students to do this, so I'd prefer if people refrain from impugning my own ethics. As I said before: I applied ED back in the dark ages and I attended (and graduate from) that school.

3. I still see little evidence that colleges feel anywhere near as strongly about this as many of you seem to. I know they have some stern language up-front, but when students request release, they grant it with little or no difficulty. My guess is they'd rather fill that slot with someone who really wants to attend their school--if someone they've accepted ED changes her mind about the fit or compatibility, it's in the college's best interest to let that kid go elsewhere. I'd like to believe that everyone in the process on all sides wants happy, satisfied, kids.

keabie18

@lakemom sorry, I did not mean to imply that ED students do not get merit. The applicants that benefit the most from ED are the borderline applicants, who if accepted, would not likely receive merit. I think strong applicants should wait and apply RD, as they would not really need the ED boost, and I have a bit of speculation that the merit aid given to an ED applicant may be slightly lower than if they had applied RD. Being cynical here, colleges use merit to get highly qualified students to attend their school. If the applicant applied ED, admissions would not need to award as much merit, as the student is bound to attend in the first place. For example: I have many classmates that have decided to attend a "safety" school after receiving huge scholarships. Without the merit, those students would most likely not attend. A college would be wise not to waste too many scholarships on ED applicants, and instead save them to persuade RD applicants to attend.

If the family needs both FA and merit to be able to attend that school, then they would benefit from the ability to compare offers. It's a little harder to justify breaking the ED agreement due to a lack of merit aid than it is due to not enough need-based aid. I think pre-reads would complicate the admissions process more than necessary, and I can imagine applicants applying ED to a bunch of schools just to get an early glimpse of what merit they would receive, with no intention of actually signing off on the ED agreement.

I would definitely like to see colleges switch to SCEA. It still allows the applicant to show that the college is their first choice, but allows a student upon acceptance to still compare packages, change their mind, determine whether they can afford the school, and adjust to any changes that may occur between December and May.

vonlost

"Doesn't anyone remember this megathread from a few years ago?"

The kids and parents working on college now certainly don't! They get the benefit of others' more recent experience.

kpgriswold

I can only speak from our own experience. We expected merit aid due to our D's strong academic record and IB diploma. She was then explicitly told by guidance counselors to apply ED to what was far and away her first choice school, as she would then not have to bother with any other applications. There was no "boost strategy" involved, just an earnest desire to be accepted at her favorite place.

And while there may be speculation HERE that ED applicants get less merit aid, that is NOT common knowledge in average-parent land, certainly not among us first-timers, whose last expereince with collge admissions was 25 years ago when we did it ourselves.

We did due diligence -- reading advice, attending fin aid seminars sponsored by our school district, using the calculators we found online -- but the info we gleaned there was not accurate, and not in line with what you all say here in the parent's forum. We will not do ED with any of our subsequent students as a result of your advice. I do wish we had found you folks before we started with this round!

Lakemom

kpgriswold, don't beat yourself up too badly. Our HS gave no guidance on any of these issues and you clearly did not get a total picture from the GC at your daughter's school. If I had not been such an obsessed researcher, I would not have know all the nuances that I have acquired. CC has been an invaluable resource.

What people forget is the merit aid is really a discount on admission. Yes you get it by having good grades but it is sort of like seeing the sticker price for a car and knowing you will be offered less because you have good credit. It is all financial calculation, not just a reward for doing well in school.

momma-three

^exactly----a little research goes a long way.

saintfan

Most "tippy-top" schools offer only need based aid. As Stanford puts it (to paraphrase) everyone who is admitted has merit by definition. Merit aid is usually most prominent and useful at schools when your kid is in the top of the school's range. You need to aim lower, usually, to get the most favorable merit packages. There is a break point of selectivity where moderate merit and "full need met" shifts to larger merit and "does not meet full need". Many in the second category do preferential packaging offering more grants and add on merit $$$ to kids who they are trying to attract. It is hard to find that sweet spot relative to your kid's profile. We won't know if we did for another month.