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"Race" in College Admission FAQ & Discussion 10

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Replies to: "Race" in College Admission FAQ & Discussion 10

  • mokusatsumokusatsu Registered User Posts: 538 Member
  • PhilovitistPhilovitist Registered User Posts: 2,739 Senior Member
    It doesn't seem anyone's trying to make AA mandatory from the opinion, but to make it allowed in Michigan.
  • FindmoreinfoFindmoreinfo Registered User Posts: 253 Junior Member
    sosomenza,

    Don't try to spin and avoid answering. lol

    I am okay with you criticizing my writing, as I said it is my second language. Actually, third. :-) I know you fully understand my questions. You were just too afraid to answer them because you have no evidences to back them up. We all understand this.

    So, I can re-phrase my questions in a simple way that even a first grader can understand.

    Let me try again then, from me to sosomenza one on one:

    1.
    You said “Memorizing SAT questions with matching answers is pretending to be smart.”

    I ask you: How many old SAT questions are there in the past 20 years on Reading, Math, and Writing tests?

    Please ANSWER it with numbers.

    2.
    From you: “ How many pretenders have taken the top spots away from real students?”

    Consider that top schools also require SATII tests, I ask: How many test takers got high scores by memorizing all past 20 years of old test questions and matching answers on all subjects including SAT Reading, MATH, Writing, SATII MATH, and CHEMISTRY/PHYSICS/BIOLOGY?

    Please give me numbers! (It will be the best to give me numbers by subjects)

    I have been asking nicely. I doubt you cannot understand the questions this time.
  • PhilovitistPhilovitist Registered User Posts: 2,739 Senior Member
    We get it
    you disagree
    can we move on?
  • FindmoreinfoFindmoreinfo Registered User Posts: 253 Junior Member
    sosomenza,

    "Findmoreinfo:

    You're writing skills are so bad that I have no idea about what you are asking!"


    You're writing skills? lol .... So my third language is better than your native? No wonder you can't understand any questions from anyone.
  • sosomenzasosomenza - Posts: 2,122 Senior Member
    You said “Memorizing SAT questions with matching answers is pretending to be smart.”

    Yes, I said it, and I stick by it. Goosing up a SAT score is pretending to be smart. In some cases it’s egregious as was the case with the Country of Korea, leaking the May exam early, resulting in the whole exam being canceled. In other cases, it’s some students getting a hold of as many old SAT tests as possible, matching questions to answers, likely hoping for a few recycled questions. For evidence of this, I offer this the C.C. website. There is no shortage of kids trying to get SAT tests, discussing old tests and begging for correct answers for in-hand tests. IS THAT ENOUGH PROOF FOR YOU.
    I ask you: How many old SAT questions are there in the past 20 years on Reading, Math, and Writing tests?

    It’s illogical to ask someone who does not have access to the SAT database to answer this question. How many questions are in service? How many have been retired due to statistical unreliability? How many have been created or will be created? You ask a question that an outsider obviously cannot answer. Why? for a smoke screen, obviously! You're simply trying to save face? But to end my point, I do suspect the current data base is very large, but not large enough to prevent a diligent student, who starts early enough, to master a good number of the questions as a pretender.
  • sosomenzasosomenza - Posts: 2,122 Senior Member
    From you: “ How many pretenders have taken the top spots away from real students?”

    STOP THE SMOKE SCREEN. DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT A RIDICULOUS QUESTION IT IS. Do you understand that to formulate such a stat projection that it would take a poling army and a squad of statisticians to calculate it? But regardless, the number does exist and in my opinion it is high.
    Consider that top schools also require SATII tests, I ask: How many test takers got high scores by memorizing all past 20 years of old test questions and matching answers on all subjects including SAT Reading, MATH, Writing, SATII MATH, and CHEMISTRY/PHYSICS/BIOLOGY?
    Please give me numbers! (It will be the best to give me numbers by subjects)
    Consider that top schools also require SATII tests, I ask: How many test takers got high scores by memorizing all past 20 years of old test questions and matching answers on all subjects including SAT Reading, MATH, Writing, SATII MATH, and CHEMISTRY/PHYSICS/BIOLOGY?

    AGAIN STOP THE SMOKE SCREEN (see above). BTW, I've never posted an opinion on SAT2 or claimed an opinion as to cheating/pretending, but if there's cheating on the SAT, then it's logical to conclude that there's cheating/pretending on the SAT2. BTW welcome to Fab's pain. There's a lot more where it came from.
  • mokusatsumokusatsu Registered User Posts: 538 Member
    A one sentence summary from SCOTUSBlog is "Whether a state violates the Equal Protection Clause by amending its constitution to prohibit race- and sex-based discrimination or preferential treatment in public-university admissions decisions."

    Scotusblog just copied that from the petition. No surprise that the petitioner phrases the issue to slant it his way. But eight votes in CA6 are the tip-off that the case is not that simple. The case turns on application of the Hunter-Seattle “political process” doctrine – “the rule that an enactment deprives minority groups of the equal protection of the laws when it: (1) has a racial focus, targeting a policy or program that ‘inures primarily to the benefit of the minority’; and (2) reallocates political power or reorders the decisionmaking process in a way that places special burdens on a minority group's ability to achieve its goals through that process.” 701 F.3d at 477.
  • icharlieicharlie Registered User Posts: 9 New Member
    Fabrizio, are you familiar with Sander and Taylor's book called, Mismatch : How Affirmative Action Hurts Students It’s Intended to Help, and Why Universities Won’t Admit It?

    The MisMatch hypothesis and data supporting it seems contradict your assertion that, "T2/T3 state schools have no incentive whatsoever to practice racial preferences because there are so many blacks and Hispanics who meet their requirements".

    Their hypothesis asserts that affirmative action harms its beneficiaries by placing them in settings where they cannot compete academically and so learn less and perform less well than they would in less selective institutions.

    With elite schools sweeping up most of the minority applicants with scores about 1200 or 1300, this means that the schools with an average SAT of, say, 1300, need to dip farther into a small applicant pool in order to get a class that has a substantial number of underrepresented minorities. In other words, they need to use a bigger preference than the very elite schools. And then the schools ranked below them are dipping even farther into the pool, using an even bigger preference. The unexpected result is that the less selective the school, the bigger the racial preferences, and the larger the mismatch. Minority students at Harvard or Stanford, or an elite state school like UVA or Michigan, are very close to their fellow students in preparation. Minority students at a second or third tier school are dealing with much bigger gaps.(As predicted by SAT scores)
This discussion has been closed.