perazziman

thanks shrinkrap.

ucbalumnus

While Duke TIP may have 70,000 per year, are they all in 7th grade, and did they all take the SAT (versus the ACT or some other qualification)?

Even if 70,000 took the SAT for that, that is only 4% of SAT test takers, so being in the bottom 7% of the presumed top 4% of 7th graders is still pretty high compared to the overall class.

perazziman

^It is 70,000 participating in a region where approx 1/3 of the SAT test takers live (in 13 states) or ~500,000 perhaps less?

Talent Identification Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

so almost 15% of the students who will take the SAT test participate in it. At my son's school from which they have not had a NMSF in 5 years 10% of the class was invited. So an average school may have 2 or 3 times that number of students invited to participate. You can see from the 8th, 9th and 10th grade SAT requirement that it is not an extremely selective program (540 on one section of the SAT for lower level 'Academy' courses & 600 on one SAT section for the upper level 'Center' courses). There is a Grand Recognition or National Recognition for kids who score close to 690 which is very selective/ rare. Generally, most middle schools have several state recognized students. Perhaps comparable to the number of NMSF commended in high school. Hope this helps. I would not be talking about this if I did not think it would be shocking for a kid to attend a school with 450 kids that participates in the program but does not have any state recognized kids.Generally most students on college bound track at most schools will be invited. Entrance is gained by doing well on those easy state basic skill tests that everyone aces.

perazziman

By the way, 15% participate but at my son's school only 33% of those invited participated. So, I cannot say for sure, but one would need to invite 45% of the students who take the SAT to get 15% participation, if my son's school is any indication.

Sue22

One of my kids qualified and another would have if we had submitted his IQ scores. The one who qualified did so on the basis of a subscore on the SSAT she took for prep school admissions. We were surprised at the invitation to participate, as we knew her to be a good, hard working kid, but not in any way exceptional as a student, and her other subscores were decidedly mediocre. Even the score on the basis of which she qualified put her only around the 80th percentile for her peer group (private school kids in our state) and right around the middle of scores for her school. We chucked it in the trash.

celesteroberts

Here is an interesting 2007 article from that shows the dilemna universities face deciding how best to diversify in the face of seemingly intractable low URM test scores. This is Bloomington, not one of the elites, unless you're in music. But it probably represents well what elite colleges face as well and buried in the article is some data about how many black (and Hispanic) Indiana kids score above- 500, 600, 700 on SAT math/verbal. The conclusion is worth reading.
http://www.iu.edu/~uirr/reports/spec...iu07-3_sat.pdf

celesteroberts

And here's something from the UC system, 2009. Maddeningly, data isn't disaggregated the way one would wish, have to try to tease out exactly what goes on, but lots of data about grades and SAT scores of black applicants, about trends in applications, admissions, just not linked the right way. Still very illuminating reading..
http://www.universityofcalifornia.ed...ARS_CR_rpt.pdf

perazziman

ucbalumnus,

Perhaps this will give you some feel for how Duke TIP functions, please look at TIP figures from a public school district and it's middle schools in the outskirts of Houston:

KatyISD - Communications



(Now imagine a middle school that had none. That is where my boy went where he earned his precious 320.)

perazziman

Here is a list of all the middle schools in that district, so you can see there is not a single one that did not have some students with recognition:

Katy Independent School District - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ucbalumnus

Re: #97

Additional UC data up to 2008-2009 can be found on University of California: StatFinder .

celesteroberts

Here's something really interesting. I guess I say that about everything, but I've never seen this stuff before. It's a white paper by Northwestern. It was in-house but some people found out and agitated to have it released to public. Seems it would have had some great data, but the group they are part of, COFHE, forbids them to release data of that sort, so it's all stripped out of report. Seems they're having interesting times there trying to deal with lack of diversity at all levels. After I saw this started browsing news reports.
http://www.northwestern.edu/strategi...WhitePaper.pdf

GoBlueJays

@ T26E4 I'm not your , "friend" ..no matter, you talk of numbers, fine. NA are "coveted" as you say..in the name of sensitivity, please look up the usage of the word "covet" it applies to a thing, a possession, not to people, unless you're quoting the Bible. Anyway if so, why are NA not more actively recruited than Hispanics and African Americans , in order to be consistent with the goal of achieving this elusive " diversity" ? bTW, recent NY Times article, there are a number of affluent NA, because of casinos, which must impact native american HS grad rates, why not look at them ? There are two issues here, NA have fallen off the Radar of college admissions, as they have , unfortunately, been forgotten in this country.Secondly, the fact that there are only 2% vs 8% for hispanics in the top colleges points out a major flaw in the tip top colleges policy. It's not true colleges want to have diversity. They do need good publicity , though, for alumni fund drives,and good publicity does not include the Native American population.

Hunt

GoBlueJays, this discussion has been about facts--you seem to have yours a bit mixed up, though. Selective colleges try very hard to recruit URMs--including Native Americans--who can do the work and succeed. The sad fact is that they can't find enough URM applicants with strong stats to recruit as many as they'd like to have. There is only a tiny handful of URMs with strong enough stats to gain admission to the most selective schools without a diversity boost. Of course, there simply aren't that many Native Americans compared to other URM groups.

prefect

Some data from 2007 from JBHE that says about 1700 African Americans scored 28 or above on ACT
JBHE: Latest News for 8/30/07

And some data from 2008

http://www.jbhe.com/latest/index090408.html

Philovitist

Wish they provided more information about this pyramid. >.>