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"Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

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Replies to: "Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

  • kjake2000kjake2000 Registered User Posts: 803 Member
    Hi, I know affirmative action is prevalent among undergraduate institutions, but is it common practice in a masters or phd program? I know being an Asian male is usually detrimental to admission to undergraduate engineering programs, but is there this same effect in grad schools? And if it is present, is affirmative action as detrimental to admission chances as in undergrad?

    Thanks
  • kjake2000kjake2000 Registered User Posts: 803 Member
    Hi, I was just wondering if grad school adcoms follow similar Affirmative actions as undergrad schools do. Do asian males in STEM get hit as hard if they are applying to a grad school compared to applying for undergrad (they get hit hard during undergrad admissions). Or is there no concept of race taken into account and grad school admissions is solely credential based?

    Thanks
  • Snowball CitySnowball City Registered User Posts: 1,250 Senior Member
    edited February 25
    @kjake2000 Take a look at these tables and you can figure out who your competition really is. (Hint- it is not African-American or Latino students)
    https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d15/tables/dt15_318.45.asp?current=yes

    Apologies if this double posts. My phone is being goofy
  • Snowball CitySnowball City Registered User Posts: 1,250 Senior Member
    Grad school is not purely a credentials based admissions. Your statement of intent really matters, your interviews are super important, and there needs to be mentor or department whose research topics mesh with yours.

    The graduate school sub forum has some very knowledgeable posters who can help you.
  • DadTwoGirlsDadTwoGirls Registered User Posts: 2,021 Senior Member
    The top US universities (Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, MIT) all have published stats that the number of white students that they admit is less than 50%. My Alma Mater, Stanford, recently published stats that the most recent incoming class was less than 40% white. My recollection is that the number of white non-hispanic people in the US is about 63%. Clearly some of these are being squeezed out of our top universities. I suspect that this is one of many factors in why there is so much stress and stress-related illness in suburban US high schools.

    My younger daughter is a straight A student who was potentially interested in a highly ranked very small liberal arts college in the northeast. Looking at those little charts that you see on-line she saw that none of the other GPA 4.0 students from her school had been accepted, only one student was accepted with a GPA of 3.4. She didn't bother to apply, but instead will be leaving the country in September to study abroad (with a GPA of 4.0, two languages, and a very successful semester abroad in a non-English high school, she was accepted to every university that she applied to that was outside of the USA).

    I think that some affirmative action is a very good thing for two reasons: (i) It is important that every American citizen believe that they have a chance, if they work hard enough and do well enough in school, to get into an appropriate and well regarded university; (ii) There really is some value in studying and living next to people from a wide variety of backgrounds. However, it is possible to go too far.

    We are overdoing it. The US is NOT better off when white students (or any other students) with a GPA of 4.0 need to leave the country in order to go to a top or appropriate university. There is a very real risk that they won't return. Also, this is going to piss off enough people that it is likely to have other unfortunate affect, such as on elections. You can't tell 63% of the population that you would prefer if they would please leave and never come back, and expect to avoid some unfortunate reaction.
  • doschicosdoschicos Registered User Posts: 13,191 Senior Member
    "You can't tell 63% of the population that you would prefer if they would please leave and never come back"
    Huh? Who is saying that?

    "My younger daughter is a straight A student who was potentially interested in a highly ranked very small liberal arts college in the northeast. Looking at those little charts that you see on-line she saw that none of the other GPA 4.0 students from her school had been accepted"
    Probably because those 4.0 students are getting into other colleges and going to other schools. Perhaps the small LAC is protecting its yield because those 4.0 students from your daughter's HS never wound up matriculating but the kids a little lower do. Could be all kinds of reasons that have nothing to do with race/affirmative action.

    " leave the country in order to go to a top or appropriate university."
    Did she not apply to any schools in the USA after looking at what I assume was Naviance?

  • CottonTalesCottonTales Registered User Posts: 463 Member
    edited March 8
    I find it hard to believe that a 4.0 student has to leave the United States to go to a top or appropriate university. Poppycock.

    What was your definition of a top or appropriate school for your daughter @DadTwoGirls?

    I've heard of go big or go home, but not go big or leave the country.
  • Snowball CitySnowball City Registered User Posts: 1,250 Senior Member
    @DadTwoGirls To counter your anecdote, the two highly ranked colleges nearest my home are 78% and 80% white. Anecdotes are not data.
  • LMHLAW3LMHLAW3 Registered User Posts: 79 Junior Member
    Ivy543 You're questioning the US system even though you are not a citizen. All US colleges and universities can make their own prerequisites and are not beholden to international students. It is a privilege to attend a university particularly in a country that is not your own. So please don't accuse US colleges of not meeting the needs of international students.
  • LMHLAW3LMHLAW3 Registered User Posts: 79 Junior Member
    Okay you're looking at schools that are highly selective and have a large Asian draw. Most of these schools still have close to a 50% white population. Some of the super selective schools have less but have you looked at the percentages of A.A. Or hispanics at these schools? I'm sure it's far lower.



  • LMHLAW3LMHLAW3 Registered User Posts: 79 Junior Member
    There is no reason to go abroad when there are hundreds of quality schools her in the US. GPA is not everything and means nothing if the quality is not there.
  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger Registered User Posts: 1,443 Senior Member
    From another thread, http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1971287-perspectives-from-an-admissions-office-at-a-selective-school-part-1.html#latest

    It's unfortunate Asians and whites appear to be victims of racial discrimination at some colleges.
    For URMs/low income students, we are trained to understand their percentile ranks for various tests (here is one such source: https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServi...anks-gender-ethnicity-2015.pdf). The 95% mark (700 for whites, 750 for Asians, 600 for African Americans, 650 for Latinos/Native Americans) is the benchmark we use.
  • Snowball CitySnowball City Registered User Posts: 1,250 Senior Member
    edited March 14
    That is cherry picking. Read a little further and it states that the URMs are overwhelming rejected. It also states that within the context of their school the students need to be in a certain decile requirements and have good LORs.

    The author also states that students from low income homes are given some grace which applies to all students, not only URM.
  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger Registered User Posts: 1,443 Senior Member
    edited March 14
    ^If, for example, you admit 10% of group A and 20% of group B, then group B has a significant advantage even though you reject the vast majority of both groups. This is the same issue we see when legacies are discussed. The Ivies might reject the majority of legacies, but that doesn't mean legacies still don't get a substantial advantage.
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