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"Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

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Replies to: "Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 9,648 Senior Member
    edited April 6
    But in academic circles, the right response to a study you disagree with is to create a study showing the flaws in the original one, using the explanatory variables that I suggested above or others that are more appropriate. Everyone with a background in statistics understands that while you have to be careful in doing so, this is not rocket science.

    I think the problem is that there isn't sufficient data to analyze. Colleges (rightly or wrongly) do not release their complete app/accept data to the public (I assume at least in part for privacy reasons - though Princeton did so for the federal government).

    So one can only do studies like Espenshade's, that use just one or two pieces of a complex puzzle. He had no rec letters, no EC lists, no essays, only GPA and test scores (and race).
  • hebegebehebegebe Registered User Posts: 1,700 Senior Member
    edited April 6
    Yes, it is clearly too old to be useful today for anything more than raising questions about the current state of the world.

    I do think there is public data today that could make for interesting analysis. There are a small number of students that get accepted each year in to all 8 Ivys, and they make news because of it. We could look at the racial makeup of those students relative to the population at large, and determine how likely that would happen by chance. Here are key assumptions here that come to mind right away:

    1. All races are equally likely to apply to all 8 Ivy League schools.
    2. The qualifications of the best applicants is independent of race.
    3. All races are equally likely to disclose to the press.

    I can't think of any reason why these would be false.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 9,648 Senior Member
    edited April 6
    But "people who apply to all 8 Ivies in the first place" is a tiny sample to begin with.

    And the sample of kids who get into all 8 is corrupted by the fact that the only ones we know about are the ones that want it known.

    I think the confidential nature of college applications and admissions makes it impossible to do any kind of useful study. Even public schools can't offer a useful level of data beyond race/gpa/test scores, right?
  • hebegebehebegebe Registered User Posts: 1,700 Senior Member
    In some cases, you don't need many samples. It all depends on the inherent likelihood of the situation. To use an easy to understand example, it is possible that a die could come up with a one, 6 times in in a row, but doing so with only six rolls is high likely to arouse suspicion about its fairness.

    I will see if I can get to this by the weekend.
  • LMHLAW3LMHLAW3 Registered User Posts: 79 Junior Member
    There are no schools that use only race to determine acceptance. Colleges all use very holistic approaches.
  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger Registered User Posts: 1,456 Senior Member
    edited April 6
    @LMHLAW3 All of you need to take a step back and look at the facts. Almost all colleges except for the Historically Black schools have an extremely low percentage of Black and Hispanic students.

    This isn't even close to true at the top schools. If you look at the most recent CDS data for the Ivy league, you'll find non-hispanic whites and Asians comprise about 56-64% of the undergraduate student body, depending on the school, or roughly their same proportion in the college age population. To reverse that, URMs are not under-represented at the top colleges and probably haven't been for a couple of decades.
  • itsgettingreal17itsgettingreal17 Registered User Posts: 2,825 Senior Member
    edited April 6
    ^^Your numbers are way off
  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger Registered User Posts: 1,456 Senior Member
    edited April 6
    @itsgettingreal17

    You misunderstood my post. If you add non-Hispanic Asians and non-Hispanic whites together, you get about 60% at the top schools, which rely on holistic admissions. In other words, 40% of the student body is diverse(excluding non-Hispanic Asians). If you want facts, look at CDS data.
  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger Registered User Posts: 1,456 Senior Member
    @itsgettingreal17

    Are you claiming Ivy League colleges falsify their CDS data?
  • LMHLAW3LMHLAW3 Registered User Posts: 79 Junior Member
    Just looked at Harvard stats: 47.6 % white, 17.2% Asian, 9.7 % Hispanic, 7.8% international, 6.3% black, 5.6 % 2 or more races and 5.5% unknown. So according to this only about 6 % are black so....
  • doschicosdoschicos Registered User Posts: 13,244 Senior Member
    According to the US Census in 2010, Hispanic/Latinos were 16.3% of the US population and Blacks/AAs were 12.6% of the population. Can you name many selective colleges that exceed those percentages?
  • LMHLAW3LMHLAW3 Registered User Posts: 79 Junior Member
    If you look at only the AA population at colleges it is well under 10%. All you have to do is go on these campuses and you'll see.
  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger Registered User Posts: 1,456 Senior Member
    @doschicos

    You have to make some estimate of what percent of non-resident aliens, multi-racial, and race/ethnicity unknown qualify as either black and/or Hispanic. If you did that, I do think you would find at least 29% black and/or Hispanic at most of the Ivy League.
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