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"Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

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Replies to: "Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

  • collegemomjamcollegemomjam Registered User Posts: 985 Member
    @ELopez1275 so this girl lied? She marked black and isn't?

    Despite the many exceptions to the rule that have been brought up, I find it hard to argue that whites don't have more choices when it comes to not being the majority/plurality or whatever we want to call it.
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Registered User Posts: 60,344 Senior Member
    Zinhead wrote:
    Whites certainly have the most options for attending schools that they form the plurality, but that does not mean that ethic or racial groups cannot find schools that have sufficiently large percentages of their own to feel comfortable at.

    "Sufficiently large" may vary. @Hanna once mentioned that white students generally preferred schools with white majorities*, but non-white students were more varied in their preferences with respect to a school's racial/ethnic demographics (or whether it mattered at all to them).

    *Though some generally highly desired schools seem to be testing their marketability here with white students as the plurality in the 40-49% range, rather than majority.
  • ELopez1275ELopez1275 Registered User Posts: 38 Junior Member
    Essentially yes. Many of the Copts in paricular will say 'we are not Arab we are african, so tha tmeans we can check the African/black' box on college applications (the terminology differs on some non common apps). They do this ALL the time in NJ. They have been doing it since my cousin 15 years ago went to HS.
  • ELopez1275ELopez1275 Registered User Posts: 38 Junior Member
    ironically none of the egyptians who check african on their applications will ever self identify it in public unless pressed....again if minorities like cubans or copts are the majority of AA recipients....then they wil lessentially more and more deny minorities who need it over time. their politics are hateful and they don't understand how hard we had to work to get that opportunity here in the US
  • collegemomjamcollegemomjam Registered User Posts: 985 Member
    @ELopez1275 I agree it's not right when the"wrong" people are helped by AA. I would like to think that the admissions offices at the schools that truly want the diversity for the right reasons (and not just on paper) will be able to sniff out the applicants that they really want. I wonder, though, if they would still give an advantage to a Copt applicant because they offer a different perspective than say, the typical white kid from the Northeast? Point being, they may be completely aware of the issues you raise but still find these applicants desirable as it relates to diversifying their campuses.

    I know we already discussed similar topics on this thread, but I do hope that colleges attempt to use AA to diversify their campuses with the URM's from our country that are most deserving. I think the entire country can benefit in the long run from trying to bridge the gap between our many different communities. Getting more URM's from the lower SES communities well educated is a win-win for this country. And the world in general.
  • ELopez1275ELopez1275 Registered User Posts: 38 Junior Member
    edited June 22
    I think you overestimate college adcoms.

    Many are quite ordinary, didn't go to the top schools themselves (this has been changing in recent years though). An MIT dean got away with a BS degrees for 15 or 25 years. Most don't have a deep understanding of statistics. I've sat on a commitee. Few care actually about diversity, or can eve nempathize with being poor. As I've stated before the majority of applicants who are African American affirmative action recipients are not African Americans but the cildren of African and Carribean blacks. Adcoms know this. This divide was pretty pronounced at my top 10 schools with OBS and OAS hardly interacting with each other, the latter looking down on the former. So why do they do it? Money, the facade of diversity, and grants are huge motivators too.

    Also the Asian applicant, who might come from a disadvantaged background, for instance would need ahigher SAT score (negative filter) to even get looked at....the filtering or essay or character references don't even get looked at if they don't score high enough. This is my main gripe....they should normalize SAT scores by zipcode (accounts for poverty) AND race then proceed to negative filter. The SAT is a negative filter it is essentially used to say cut the 16,000 application pool to 4,000
  • ZinheadZinhead Registered User Posts: 2,364 Senior Member
    again if minorities like cubans or copts are the majority of AA recipients

    So explain to me why Cubans aren't Hispanic.
  • collegemomjamcollegemomjam Registered User Posts: 985 Member
    I love the idea to add zip code and have thought that all along. Still some people will slip through the wrong cracks, but it would be a step in the right direction in helping those that truly need the help. I have always said that the white kids in Newark deserve a break, too. (Not that there are many.)

    You seem to know more than most people about what goes on in admissions offices. But in some of my more recent observations (I pay attention to this stuff in my town where we have some legit and non-legit box checkers), it does seem like some of the admissions committees SOMETIMES notice when someone deserves the AA bump and when someone doesn't. I know of a Cuban and Black box checker (but not deserving of a bump based on home and dad's Investment Banking job, and she truly identifies as white) that did NOT get in to BC (but got into other comparable schools). I know of another hispanic box checker, even more well off, that didn't get into some elite state flagships but got in to Hopkins and Wash U. I'm sure there are so many variables and we can never prove why someone was admitted over someone else, but I do think sometimes SOME ad coms can tell the difference. But I really don't know and sounds like you have more of a handle on this than me. That's just my opinion based on some observations.

    I also wonder if they check social media to get a feel for how truly "needy" someone might be.

  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Registered User Posts: 60,344 Senior Member
    There are also people whose self identification does not necessarily match what other people think of them at first glance:
    http://theundefeated.com/features/isaiah-hartenstein-nba-draft-2017/
  • theloniusmonktheloniusmonk Registered User Posts: 511 Member
    Affirmative Action was never intended to address income gaps, even though that has been a byproduct. However while income is probably a bigger issue now, colleges that use AA are not going to give admission to a poor Asian over a weatlhy African American.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 9,312 Senior Member
    edited June 22
    The common app asks, if you check "black", the following:



    Which best describes your Black or African American background?



    -U.S. / African American

    -Africa

    -Caribbean

    -Other

    and FWIW

    Which best describes your Asian background?

    China
    India
    Japan
    Korea
    Pakistan
    Philippines
    Vietnam
    Other East Asia
    Other South Asia
    Other Southeast Asia
  • janiemirandajaniemiranda Registered User Posts: 31 Junior Member
    Are there any ramification for not answering the race question?
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 9,312 Senior Member
    It's optional. If you are URM it's probably best to answer it so you get that extra look, at schools that consider it.

    But there's nothing negative about NOT answering it.
  • ELopez1275ELopez1275 Registered User Posts: 38 Junior Member
    use the search feature, i answerd this before
  • collegemomjamcollegemomjam Registered User Posts: 985 Member
    As it relates to the Cuban question. I think SOME Cubans are very white and have a European (some Jewish) background similar to many typical white Americans. There happen to be quite a few Cuban families in my NYC suburban town, and I would not say that their school aged children are in anyway disadvantaged. However, they do have stories to tell....one of them, a good friend of mine (she is in hear early 50's now), snuck here when she was 2 years old on some secret flight her parents arranged (so they must have had money in Cuba at some point...maybe coffee farming that was taken by the government?). Anyway, when my friend's parents got here in the mid 60's, they had nothing and built themselves back up to middle class (not sure if the government helped at all, not sure how that all worked back then). So now the grandchildren of the people that snuck here in 60's are applying to college and probably do get a bump from AA. But these grandchildren, at least in our community, definitely live their lives more like common white folk and don't seem to have any disadvantages in educational or societal opportunities.

    I do find the whole Cuban immigrant topic quite interesting, especially as it relates to other hispanic immigration. There definitely seem to be some differences and I'm honestly not sure how I feel about it all as it relates to AA. One thing I find interesting is that many Cubans, at least the older ones (let's say in their 40's and up?) seem to lean more right politically, I think in part because they fled communism (understandable for sure!). But, the irony is that many of their children are benefiting from the policies they are probably voting against in their elections?? Don't mean to get political, but I do think it's interesting.

    I don't want to start a new debate about Cubans and AA....just thought I would share my thoughts.

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