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"Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

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Replies to: "Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

  • ZinheadZinhead Registered User Posts: 2,558 Senior Member
    That's how it was interpreted, if he didn't imply what I wrote, he would still have his job.

    Here is a pretty good break down of the coverage of googlegate.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/the-most-common-error-in-coverage-of-the-google-memo/536181/?utm_source=twb
    To me, the Google memo is an outlier—I cannot remember the last time so many outlets and observers mischaracterized so many aspects of a text everyone possessed. Casually perusing “anti-diversity” headlines without reading the memo might mislead readers into thinking a Google employee had assigned a negative value to gender diversity, when in fact he assigned a positive value to gender diversity, but objected to some ways it was being pursued and tradeoffs others would make to maximize it.

    If there ever was a textbook example of the media getting it wrong, this was it.
  • theloniusmonktheloniusmonk Registered User Posts: 824 Member
    The Atlantic article brings up a lot of good points and I also doubt that 50-50 balance can be achieved. However it takes him at his word when he says "I value diversity and inclusion", when he may not. I think what got him was the neurotic comment, he was probably out after that. I'm sure a lot of people, men and women alike went to his manager and said we can't work with him anymore and we don't him doing any of our peer-reviews.

    And his thinly veiled stereotyping of women would lead others to think he would stereotype other ethnicities.
  • collegemomjamcollegemomjam Registered User Posts: 1,010 Senior Member
    Taking a risk here on switching the argument and being behind on this thread, but wondering something. I thought I saw a headline that said the reason they want to do away with AA if because it's unfair to "whites"....wouldn't getting rid of AA hurt whites even more because there are so many Asians with amazing records? Aren't they the ones claiming to be discriminated against??? Not giving my opinion either way, just wondering if objectively speaking, I'm interpreting this correctly.
  • notigeringnotigering Registered User Posts: 105 Junior Member
    You interpreted it correctly. Here is a very good explanation of what is going on:

    https://www.vox.com/first-person/2017/8/4/16094648/affirmative-action-trump-sessions-asian-american
  • Jay46631Jay46631 Registered User Posts: 2 New Member
    Is AP Calculus AB a one year course or just a semester.
  • collegemomjamcollegemomjam Registered User Posts: 1,010 Senior Member
    @notigering Thanks for that link. Great article and I recommend everyone on this thread read it.

    It kind of stops short though of outright saying what I have been thinking...."Whites" (which I am one of!) better be careful what they wish for. If we end up building the meritocracy the way they think it should be built, they stand to lose maybe less spots to the "darkies" (as the article puts it) but will lose more spots to Asians.

    I am a huge supporter of Affirmative Action, for the record. But that's beside the point...I just feel like, objectively speaking, the whites that think they are the victims don't realize they might have more to lose by overturning AA. (I think I read an article once saying if the Ivies admitted on stats alone their classes would be upwards of 70% Asian??? Not sure if that's correct, but I remember reading that!). Or would they still be OK with the elite colleges holding Asian applicants to higher standards? Would that double standard get past the Supreme Court??
  • CanuckguyCanuckguy Registered User Posts: 1,107 Senior Member
    ^ Just two quick comments about Reece's article:
    Studies have shown just the opposite. One found that even though black and Latino students at the University of Texas tend to have lower standardized test scores than more affluent white students, their grades, first-year retention rates, and four-year graduation rates are just as good or better. Students of color can thrive if offered the opportunity.

    He should read the Arcidiacono study. Weaker students protected their GPA by switching out of hard subjects into easy ones. He noted such behaviour are more prevalent among URMs and legacies.

    This reflects a complex web of racism that simultaneously serves to rhetorically lift Asian Americans over black Americans and Latinos while ensuring that they don’t rise too high above their station as minorities. This is evident in their overrepresentation at universities and in lower-level positions in the workplace but their vast underrepresentation in higher-level positions, a phenomenon dubbed the “bamboo ceiling.”

    I think this is very true. I once wrote a doggerel about it:

    Maintaining power is my aim;
    Divide and conquer is my game.
  • EternalBluSkyEternalBluSky Registered User Posts: 5 New Member
    Hey guys, I'm mixed white and asian, which race should I put on college application to have a higher chance of admission?
  • Much2learnMuch2learn Registered User Posts: 4,302 Senior Member
    @collegemomjam "I thought I saw a headline that said the reason they want to do away with AA if because it's unfair to "whites"....wouldn't getting rid of AA hurt whites even more because there are so many Asians with amazing records?"

    I think you are making a good point.

    The way colleges try to construct and diversity their classes every group benefits from affirmative action at some colleges or universities. For example, Lehigh is an excellent top 50 University with significant engineering and business programs in addition to arts and sciences. Lehigh has been working to improve its diversity broadly. Not only with Black and Latino students, but also with Asian students and female students. They are making steady progress, but would like to continue to improve.

    It is wise for parents and students to try to identify schools that are interested in whatever group their student happens to be a member of. For example, currently there are about 33% more women applying to college than men. Because of that, many colleges will admit men at a higher rate to balance their classes. However, there are still many schools who have more men and would like to balance the class out with more women.












  • AmduseusAmduseus Registered User Posts: 70 Junior Member
    How does AA affect aspects of an application that aren't objective? For example, it would be easier to overlook something like lower test scores for a URM because that's a measurable quantity, but how do colleges handle URM applicants who may have slightly weaker awards, activities, etc?
  • notigeringnotigering Registered User Posts: 105 Junior Member
    @Amduseus They basically look into what resources are available in the applicant's community and how the applicant made use of them. They also look for hardship and what the applicant did to help overcome it, say family responsibilities such as work or taking care of others (ie younger siblings while parent was busy at work, prison, died etc..) and substitute them for extracurricular activities. In the end it is a common sense sensible judgement really, like you say it is subjective and not measurable criteria...
  • Much2learnMuch2learn Registered User Posts: 4,302 Senior Member
    @amduseus "How does AA affect aspects of an application that aren't objective? For example, it would be easier to overlook something like lower test scores for a URM because that's a measurable quantity, but how do colleges handle URM applicants who may have slightly weaker awards, activities, etc?"

    It is important to understand that how these things are done is not standardized. Each school may approach it differently. A lot will depend on how important the particular school views extra curriculars in general.

    Some may prefer a student with targeted gpa and test scores but weaker EC's. Others may be more willing to give a little on the grades and test scores to get a student with better EC's.
  • noplayallworknoplayallwork Registered User Posts: 167 Junior Member
    edited August 22
    I'm not going to state my opinion of Trump in general to not start a political debate on CC. However, I will say that he's doing a noble thing with the whole affirmative action thing. As a South Asian, I'm glad I won't be discriminated against in college admissions.

    URMs crying about this and demanding they receive preferential treatment are just being entitled, and have to play the victim as if they're somehow being discriminated against 24/7, and blame all of their problems on race.
  • noplayallworknoplayallwork Registered User Posts: 167 Junior Member
    edited August 23
    @notigering The difference is that affirmative action is structured racial discrimination that displaces whites and asians. URMs that cry about "white privilege" and "systemic racism" when a cop shoots someone or they have any sort of issue in their life, that's quite different as there's literally no legal discrimination barring them from anything.

    However, there IS actual discrimination in the case of affirmative action. URMs and self-hating Whites that justify this pretend like there's some imaginary barrier called "white privilege" that holds down minorities in every aspect of life, thus they must be favored in college admission for no reason other than their race.

    And yes, Trump certainly "has my back" in the case of college admissions if he does succeed at ending racist college admissions.
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