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"Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

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Replies to: "Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Registered User Posts: 61,580 Senior Member
    An outlier that big probably means something big like development or highly desired athlete (though Chicago seems to have less emphasis on athletics than many other schools). Or perhaps someone took and submitted both ACT and SAT but was admitted on a much better SAT score.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 9,648 Senior Member
    ^ Exactly my thinking. There are plenty of URM with much higher scores than that to go around.
  • ZinheadZinhead Registered User Posts: 2,470 Senior Member
    edited September 13
    UChicago also has a special scholarship for the sons and daughters of Chicago Police and Firemen. Only a handful of kids earn the scholarship each year, and this could have been one of them. It would not have been an athlete.
  • preppedparentpreppedparent Registered User Posts: 1,949 Senior Member
    edited September 13
    Yes, I work with a lot of students and college counselors. My point is not so much the cut off score, but the fact that WLs are used for this purpose.
  • ZinheadZinhead Registered User Posts: 2,470 Senior Member
    edited September 13
    @OHMomof2 -
    But you claimed a 23 was getting in over a 32 and because of URM status and I just don't see any evidence for that.

    The following link is to Brown's Admissions Facts page:

    https://www.brown.edu/admission/undergraduate/explore/admission-facts

    It shows that Brown accepted 21 kids with an ACT score of less than a 26 (19 enrolled), and 87 kids with ACT scores between 26 and 28. They also turned down 332 kids with 36 ACT scores in the same year.
  • jzducoljzducol Registered User Posts: 124 Junior Member
    @preppedparent URM WL being admitted at a much higher rate probably is a strong indication that all of those top schools have a pretty firm range of racial makeup in mind. They have to replace URM no shows with URM WL admits. Unlike the other hooks--recruited athletes, FA dependent 1st Gen/Low In kids, donors/alum/faculty children that are locked in with the school, the URM kids with a typical profile of ACT 32+ and FI of $125k+ usually have multiple offers from tippy-top schools. They are generally sought after by many top schools. CC's results threads seem to show such pattern. If they have to turn down many of those schools its only natural URM WL must begin with a higher number to offset anticipated no shows and have a much higher acceptance rate.
  • preppedparentpreppedparent Registered User Posts: 1,949 Senior Member
    I'm suggesting one use of the WL is letting down ORMs easy by putting them on a WL with no intention of admitting them. I don't know or want to speculate on how one URM is replaced by another on the WL.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 9,648 Senior Member
    But @zinhead we don't know the lower scores were URMs at Brown. So I still don't see any evidence for that.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 9,648 Senior Member
    @preppedparent I'm suggesting one use of the WL is letting down ORMs easy by putting them on a WL with no intention of admitting them

    Well of course. The WL is for letting all the applicants they like but can't admit down easy. I don't see it having anything to do with ORM.

    My S was waitlisted at a college that was a big reach for him but a family friend is in admissions there. We can all get together without embarrassment - he wasn't rejected! Then again, he also got two acceptances off waitlists, that happens too.
  • preppedparentpreppedparent Registered User Posts: 1,949 Senior Member
    Connect the dots. The ORM is put on the list because the college has accepted URM with lesser stats.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 9,648 Senior Member
    I'd rather not "connect the dots", I'd rather see actual evidence, thanks.
  • lalalander111lalalander111 Registered User Posts: 36 Junior Member
    True we never know for sure if those outlier scores are athletes or URM, but most often, to be honest, when we see a ""Wow, I can't believe I got in with a 27 ACT- don't give up!" we tend to scroll down and find out ....URM....
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 9,648 Senior Member
    @lalalander111 maybe that's because recruited athletes KNOW if they're getting in with their stats due to likely letters, pre-reads etc.
  • notigeringnotigering Registered User Posts: 105 Junior Member
    edited September 13
    @lalalander111 careful with anecdotal evidence, for very obvious reasons (edit, ^thanks @OHMomof2) you will have a higher concentration of URM's than say prep school lacrosse stars in a place like this one.

    Also low standardized test scores often belong to strong in math (but poor in English) non-native English speakers. The TOEFL is substituted for the ACT/SAT English portion of the test.
  • ZinheadZinhead Registered User Posts: 2,470 Senior Member
    edited September 13
    @OHMomof2 -
    But @zinhead we don't know the lower scores were URMs at Brown. So I still don't see any evidence for that.

    Unless one has access to the actual admissions records, I suspect one will never be able to meet your criteria for evidence. However, we can look at class surveys from UChicago that show average SAT score by ethnicity.

    https://www.chicagomaroon.com/article/2016/9/14/class-2020-survey/

    The score range is as follows:

    Asian: 2,277
    Indian or South Asian: 2,254
    White: 2,226
    Middle-Eastern: 2,150
    Black: 2,129
    Hispanic: 2,098

    Furthermore, if you look further down the linked page, you will find that recruited athletes only made of 5.6 percent of the incoming class, and that the average test score for recruited athletes is 2,149. This figure is higher than the average for the two URM groups. Assuming normal distributions for each of these groups, mathematically it is more likely that a higher percentage of the low outlier scores are URM's than recruited athletes.

    Recruited Athlete: 2,149
    Not A Recruited Athlete: 2,224
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