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"Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

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Replies to: "Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Registered User Posts: 61,541 Senior Member
    dragonmom3 wrote:
    Many people seem to underestimate the attraction of going to schools with those very legacy and development students that everyone seems to disparage. Isn't that part of what makes the "Ivy League" so attractive? If we are honest about it?

    If that is the case, then it would be in the category of the college's own marketability as mentioned in reply #1034.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 9,643 Senior Member
    @dragonmom3 - I think so.

    Part of the attraction of an elite education is rubbing shoulders with the "rich and powerful", not necessarily "the smartest". I think that's part of the reason affirmative action makes an easy target while preferences that benefit whiter, wealthier students just makes people want to change the subject.
  • preppedparentpreppedparent Registered User Posts: 1,949 Senior Member
    In regard to things are fine the way they are. Sure, for most. It's only the ORMs who are discriminated against in college admissions that have a problem. Because none of us like to be stereotyped or discriminated against.

    It will always be that way. Only those who aren't given a fair shake have a problem with it.
  • whatisyourquestwhatisyourquest Registered User Posts: 540 Member
    edited September 13
    But that's just it @OHMomof2 (re 1037). Respectfully, I don't hear you making arguments FOR affirmative action, I hear you wanting to "change the subject" to other admission preferences.

    Here's a better tu quoque reference:

    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

    "You avoided having to engage with criticism by turning it back on the accuser - you answered criticism with criticism.

    It is commonly employed as an effective red herring because it takes the heat off someone having to defend their argument, and instead shifts the focus back on to the person making the criticism."
  • CottonTalesCottonTales Registered User Posts: 463 Member
    @preppedparent, you didn't respond to post #1031. Don't be shy and back track now. Would you be okay with that URM student getting admission or not.
  • preppedparentpreppedparent Registered User Posts: 1,949 Senior Member
    edited September 13
    Never shy, but don't like being bullied. I have no issue with URMs and their compelling stories. I have a problem with ORMs getting shut out in favor of whites because of fictitious assertions that Asians are too focused on scores, and are one dimensional as seen through a stereotypic lens.
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Registered User Posts: 61,541 Senior Member
    Never shy, but don't like being bullied. I have no issue with URMs and their compelling stories. I have a problem with ORMs getting shut out in favor of whites because of fictitious assertions that Asians are too focused on scores, and are one dimensional as seen through a stereotypic lens.

    If there is any such conscious effort to keep white enrollment up at the expense of Asian enrollment, it is probably due to college marketability concerns that the college will be less marketable to white applicants if white students are not the majority, or at least the plurality group. https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/18416978/#Comment_18416978 hints at this type of thing.
  • CottonTalesCottonTales Registered User Posts: 463 Member
    @preppedparent, how can you now say you have no issues with URMs, but with white students. Please look back on your posts #988, #989, #997 and #1000. That's as far back as I needed to show you are not being consistent in your comments.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 9,643 Senior Member
    @whatisyourquest Respectfully, I don't hear you making arguments FOR affirmative action, I hear you wanting to "change the subject" to other admission preferences.

    If you search through this thread I've definitely made those arguments over the years. I am in favor of AA. I think it's a (limited) way to attempt to right a wrong and remedy some inequality. I also think colleges with kids of different races (and SES and areas of the country and world and religion - meaning, diverse) benefit all, including my not-URM child.

    So consider me on the record on that.

    I just find it fascinating that those who are most against AA seem to only want that one preference to go away....not the preferences that take far more spaces away from academically deserving students and give them to kids who are already "starting at third base", if you will.

    I acknowledge that there are a couple of posters here who want all non-academic preferences gone - straight stats admissions. (But even of those, few want to say what that college experience would be like, beyond what race(s) those colleges would be).
  • preppedparentpreppedparent Registered User Posts: 1,949 Senior Member
    CT, I'm not that interesting. I'm just trying to sort through the issues like everyone else. Surely you have better things to do than focus on me and my posts. Stay focused on what you think and what you want to contribute to the dialogue.
  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger Registered User Posts: 1,448 Senior Member
    @OHMomof2 I just find it fascinating that those who are most against AA seem to only want that one preference to go away.

    Not all preferences discriminate against a legally protected class. Race/Ethnicity is a legally protected class. Sex is a legally protected class. Being non-athletic isn't a legally protected class. Being a non-legacy isn't a legally protected class. Being a non-dev admit isn't a legally protected class.
  • CottonTalesCottonTales Registered User Posts: 463 Member
    edited September 13
    @preppedparent, I KNOW what my stances are, I was just questioning why you are so angry and flip flopping on who you are angry with.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 9,643 Senior Member
    @roethlisburger Not all preferences discriminate against a legally protected class. Race/Ethnicity is a legally protected class. Sex is a legally protected class. Being non-athletic isn't a legally protected class. Being a non-legacy isn't a legally protected class. Being a non-dev admit isn't a legally protected class.

    First of all, women get the short end of the stick in most elite college admissions, also men at tech schools. Where's the outrage? They're a legally protected class too right? Answer is, nearly everyone favors a gender balance,so that's OK.

    And my point is (and has been) that athletic/legacy/development admissions preferences ARE race-based, just like AA. They just benefit a different race and they hide it better.
  • whatisyourquestwhatisyourquest Registered User Posts: 540 Member
    edited September 13
    @OHMomof2 Thanks for explaining your support for AA.

    I don't know how you arrive at the position "that those who are most against AA seem to only want that one preference to go away." I don't see that in this thread, at all -- but I admit that I have not plowed through all of the thousand posts. Count me as one that would like to see all preferences eliminated, except for tips for low SES.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 9,643 Senior Member
    @whatisyourquest Helping low SES students is definitely something I support also.

    But I also wonder what happens when all the other preferences go away. If alumni get mad at the loss of legacy and the super rich stop giving with an eye to getting their kids in, how does that impact financial aid for the low SES admits, for instance?
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