Welcome to College Confidential!

The leading college-bound community on the web

Sign Up For Free

Join for FREE, and start talking with other members, weighing in on community discussions, and more.

Also, by registering and logging in you'll see fewer ads and pesky welcome messages (like this one!)

As a CC member, you can:

  • Reply to threads, and start your own.
  • Post reviews of your campus visits.
  • Find hundreds of pages of informative articles.
  • Search from over 3 million scholarships.
Please take a moment to read our updated TOS, Privacy Policy, and Forum Rules.

"Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

17677787981

Replies to: "Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

  • SAYSAY Registered User Posts: 815 Member
    edited October 2
    So now it seems we all agree that the statement that being male is a hook at Brown was factually incorrect. An athletic recruit with a likely letter has greater than a 95% chance of admission to Brown. 89% of un-hooked males are rejected. This appears settled.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 9,847 Senior Member
    Jared Kushner had a 99% chance of being accepted to Harvard after his dad donated 2.5 million in 250K annual installments.

    Athletes with average stats often get recruited to elite colleges.

    Being male is a hook at Brown.
  • SAYSAY Registered User Posts: 815 Member
    JK had a 100% chance of acceptance to Harvard. Likely letter athletes have near 100% chance of admission. 89% of males are rejected. Most people would not lump them together but hey it's a free world.
  • dragonmom3dragonmom3 Registered User Posts: 269 Junior Member
    What is the point of this discussion anymore?
  • SAYSAY Registered User Posts: 815 Member
    edited October 3
    It's really about the science of statistics and probablity. Different people look at the same data and come to very different conclusions. In my case I have a background in statistics and know that a 98-99% chance of admission and a 89% chance of rejection are two very different situations. But not everyone agrees. Elite college admissions is a very stressful experience that can color one's viewpoint. But I do think you are right that this issue has throughly discussed and everyone can make their own decision on which position they would feel more comfortable on whether their child is likely to gain admission to Brown.
  • theloniusmonktheloniusmonk Registered User Posts: 829 Member
    "Jared Kushner had a 99% chance of being accepted to Harvard after his dad donated 2.5 million in 250K annual installments.

    Athletes with average stats often get recruited to elite colleges.

    Being male is a hook at Brown."

    Malia Obama had a 100% chance of getting into Harvard after she listed who her parents were on the common app. Same as Chelsea Clinton to Stanford. You can't say that being a female is a hook at these two colleges.

    lf your point is that people with money and power do well in the US, no one will disagree with that.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 9,847 Senior Member
    edited October 3
    No that wasn't my point @theloniusmonk - of course president's kids have a lock unless they really are academically awful.

    My point is that most of these advantages make sense to me -

    -Having a president's kid (or movie star or whatever) makes the school more prestigious - you can't buy that kind of prestige/publicity.

    -If you want $2.5 million for your library or whatever, you will save a spot for the academically average child of that donor.

    -If you want a racially, ethnically, religiously, geographically, socio-economically diverse group of students, you will give an admissions tip if you fall short to make sure that happens.

    -If you want an somewhat even gender balance, same - you will do what you can in admissions to meet that goal.

    -If you want a schools newspaper, orchestra, theater whatever you'll look for kids who have demonstrated interest and talent in those pursuits.

    -If you want a sports culture, you will value athletic participation and talent. IMO this should be a hook about even with playing viola well, or having lots of theater experience.

    -If you want more wealthy white kids you will admit legacies at a high rate, and you will make sure you have a crew, lacrosse, fencing, hockey blah blah blah team and set up a large, entire official program to give those kids likely letters and almost guaranteed admissions. (You will do it for a few athletic URM and low income kids too but they won't count against your athletic admissions quota, that's saved for the white and a few token Asian kids).

    IMO only the last really doesn't contribute much value to colleges. I think club teams with lots of walk-on possibilities would engage more students.

    But I understand parents whose kids needed that hook to get into their college probably defend it.
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Registered User Posts: 62,176 Senior Member
    OHMomof2 wrote:
    -If you want more wealthy white kids you will admit legacies at a high rate, and you will make sure you have a crew, lacrosse, fencing, hockey blah blah blah team and set up a large, entire official program to give those kids likely letters and almost guaranteed admissions. (You will do it for a few athletic URM and low income kids too but they won't count against your athletic admissions quota, that's saved for the white and a few token Asian kids).

    IMO only the last really doesn't contribute much value to colleges. I think club teams with lots of walk-on possibilities would engage more students.

    Wealthy white students add value to the colleges in two ways:

    1. Colleges probably feel that they need a sufficient number of white students in order to be marketable to white students.
    2. Wealthy students need little or no financial aid.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 9,847 Senior Member
    Good point, @ucbalumnus . I suppose they do add some value in those ways, from a college perspective.
  • ZinheadZinhead Registered User Posts: 2,562 Senior Member
    I suppose they do add some value in those ways, from a college perspective.

    Good to know that wealthy whites are useful for something.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 9,847 Senior Member
    I'm referring to recruited athletes and legacies @Zinhead .

    Though they happen to overlap to a significant degree.
  • i012575i012575 Registered User Posts: 386 Member
    Sub-categories of URMs or preferential treatment within them?!?

    Ivy League Black Students Group: There Are Too Many African And Caribbean Students Here
    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2017/10/01/ivy-league-black-students-group-there-are-too-many-african-and-caribbean-students-here-n2389020

    "Identity politics is a nasty thing. Everyone who isn’t a progressive knows this. At Cornell University, that slice of politics is rearing its ugly head, with the school’s black students group demanding that more African American students be enrolled. They’re concerned that there are too many Caribbean and African students."
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Registered User Posts: 62,176 Senior Member
    edited October 3
    Re: #1212 and https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2017/10/01/ivy-league-black-students-group-there-are-too-many-african-and-caribbean-students-here-n2389020
    Identity politics is a nasty thing. Everyone who isn’t a progressive knows this.

    Does he mean that those promoting white identity politics, who typically self-describe as "conservative" (not "progressive") know that they are being nasty?
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 9,847 Senior Member
    This letter was preceded by a violent racial assault and a previous harassment incident at Cornell, just for context. They are having a tough time this semester with that, apparently.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/18/nyregion/racially-charged-attack-slurs-cornell.html
    The Black student population at Cornell disproportionately represents international or first-generation African
    or Caribbean students. While these students have a right to flourish at Cornell, there is a lack of investment in Black students whose families were affected directly by the African Holocaust in America

    http://cornellsun.com/2017/09/27/black-students-uniteds-demands-in-hand-cornell-president-faces-first-big-test/

    ...which is an issue that has come up in this thread a lot.

    It sounds to me like these African American Cornell students feel like international students and first-gen immigrants are "taking their places" at Cornell under some "black but who cares where they come from" quota that means every one of those accepted replaces one of them. Might be true, might not.

    What was your point in posting this, @i012575 ? I'm not sure what
    Sub-categories of URMs or preferential treatment within them?!?
    means exactly.
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Registered User Posts: 62,176 Senior Member
    OHMomof2 wrote:
    It sounds to me like these African American Cornell students feel like international students and first-gen immigrants are "taking their places" at Cornell under some "black but who cares where they come from" quota that means every one of those accepted replaces one of them. Might be true, might not.

    It looks like they have also discovered the interaction between selective immigration (selection of highly educated immigrants) and the high level of transmission of educational attainment from (highly educated immigrant) parent to (American born) child. This is probably also noticeable among the white population if one looks (but probably no one looks or notices). It is most noticeable among the Asian population, where those of recent highly educated immigrant heritage are quite large in number compared to others.
Sign In or Register to comment.