Abolish the SAT - article explains that SAT I measures nothing SAT IIs can measure

InquilineKea · 07-15-2007, 10:23 PM

http://american.com/archive/2007/jul...bolish-the-sat

Quote:

Achievement tests did slightly better than the SAT in predicting freshman grades. High school grade point average, SAT scores, and achievement test scores were entered into a statistical equation to predict the grade point that applicants achieved during their freshman year in college. The researchers found that achievement tests and high school grade point each had about the same independent role—that is, each factor was, by itself, an equally accurate predictor of how a student will do as a college freshman.

But the SAT’s independent role in predicting freshman grade point turned out to be so small that knowing the SAT score added next to nothing to an admissions officer’s ability to forecast how an applicant will do in college—the reason to give the test in the first place. In technical terms, adding the SAT to the other two elements added just one-tenth of a percentage point to the percentage of variance in freshman grades explained by high school grade point and the achievement tests.

Quote:

But what about the students we’re most concerned about—those with high ability who have attended poor schools? The California Department of Education rates the state’s high schools based on the results from its standardized testing program for grades K–12. For schools in the bottom quintile of the ratings—hard as I found it to believe—the achievement tests did slightly better than the SAT in predicting how the test-takers would perform as college freshmen.

What about students from families with low incomes? Children of parents with poor education? Here’s another stunner: after controlling for parental income and education, the independent role of the SAT in predicting freshman grade point disappeared altogether. The effectiveness of high school grade point and of achievement tests to predict freshman grade point was undiminished.

I know that Charles Murray is a controversial character, but I do think that his analysis here is highly accurate.

mj93 · 07-15-2007, 10:42 PM

HS GPA predicts how hard an income freshman will work in college. Obviously, a single exam score can't predict something like that in the same way that 4 years worth of exams, tests, quizzes, homework and projects can.

epiphany · 07-15-2007, 10:49 PM

I love this man, Charles Murray.

you'llsee... · 07-15-2007, 11:35 PM

he couldn't be more right

InquilineKea · 07-15-2007, 11:46 PM

Quote:

HS GPA predicts how hard an income freshman will work in college. Obviously, a single exam score can't predict something like that in the same way that 4 years worth of exams, tests, quizzes, homework and projects can.

Unfortunately grading standards between high schools are dramatically different, necessitating a nation-wide test. Moreover, homeschooled students need tests to prove their abilities. We can also extend the testing to testing for more complex subjects like linear algebra and multivariable calculus, which would further increase the motivation for students to study those subjects on their own.

Moreover, many people don't need projects or homework to learn the material. Some people can learn the material just as well without them. And school projects aren't always conducive to learning. Some projects are designed in a way that waste loads of a student's time. And obviously one is slowed down when one has incompetent classmates.

InquilineKea · 07-15-2007, 11:49 PM

more discussion:
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2007/07/c...olish-sat.html

http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/07/charles-murray-.html

PKswmr76 · 07-15-2007, 11:51 PM

w/e...the rest of my app sucks so i like the SAT...gives me a chance to make up for the other parts

AznN3rd · 07-16-2007, 01:13 AM

I wish college admissions was solely based on SAT scores. Then I would be one of the top 4000 people in the nation, instead of the top 100,000 if not less.

enderkin · 07-16-2007, 01:34 AM

nah; you gotta remember man, if everything were based on SAT scores, it'd be just like the gaocao in China. No one would give a damn about grades, and would only study day and night for the SAT, which would have to be harder to differentiate between the inevitable thousands of people who would score perfectly on it.

al6200 · 07-16-2007, 07:56 AM

I think more than SATs should be looked at because:

1. The SAT doesn't test advanced abilities, just the core foundation
2. Colleges need to look at APs and SAT 2s to know what you know from advanced topics
3. High School Transcript tells a college how hard you work - not what you know

Mister Sinister · 07-16-2007, 08:05 AM

SAT is an extremely poor way to measure one's ability. It should only be used for scholarships, but not admissions.

cory123 · 07-16-2007, 09:40 AM

SAT's are a great measure of innate ability and potential. Unlike GPA/SATII's/AP tests, SATs can't always be "crammed" for and I think it's a good way to measure a different aspect of a student's intelligence.

al6200 · 07-16-2007, 12:57 PM

The logical fallacy in the article is that the author assumes that the tests he's replacing the SAT with are inherently different. The SAT is just another test of achievement in the context of logic and application, just like the SAT 2s or the AP tests.

ConLax11 · 07-16-2007, 11:21 PM

The SAT for college admissions is like height in the NBA. You can't teach height so basketball teams draft players who naturally are tall and athletic. Colleges need the SAT to see a person's innate intelligence. I work hard in school but in tough classes, tough competition, and a system based on deflating grades I have a lot working against me. I might work as hard or harder then kids with 4.0s at some schools but I don't have that type of GPA. Colleges will be able to tell that I'm smarter then them when I have a much higher SAT. Its necessary to compare students who are not graded on the same systems by the same teachers.

norcalguy · 07-16-2007, 11:50 PM

^^^That kind of thinking is based on the very questionable assumption that the SAT is an accurate measure of intelligence.