Newjack88

collegealum314:

A majority of the people who apply to Ivy League schools have a decent chance of being admitted. Regardless of what they say, people would not apply to these elite schools unless they felt they had a chance of getting in.

SAT scores are poor indicators of academic ability.

epiphany

Other than Harvey Mudd (which I believe has increased its Asian component over the last 4 yrs.), the other colleges I mentioned, fabrizio, are not 'overrepresented' for Asians, although they may be more within norm. You take the term overrepresented to equate with the population at large in the U.S., which I believe is about 4.4%. The term is far more loosely applied when it comes to college admissions. Admissions officers are well aware of the high educational drive & capability of Asian students, & therefore hardly expect 4.4% or less to apply to any particular U.S. college.

Again, you think absolute ceilings & quotas. Colleges do not. You've always gone by that assumption, in all your argumentation over this issue on cc.

"Representation" is comparative. I also don't mean that they're necessarily recruiting if there's, say, an 8-10% or even 13% presence. But if that compares with an 87% Caucasian presence, that is still a lopsided looking class, & the numbers of admitted Asians probably reflect a modest level of applications and a high admit rate. And it is a lot different than a 47% Asian presence in a freshman class. It's also a lot different than the enormous percentages of Asian applications to Ivies relative to the entire accepted student bodies there.

I was well aware of Washington & Lee & deliberaty left it out because of the campus culture there. Yes, an Asian would have a good chance of admission there *IF* the college has an aggressive diversity mission. The question is, would that student be happy there, would it be a good campus fit & good academic fit. A much different question.

(Ealgian mentioned dreading or disliking the idea of applying to LAC's; I was not looking for one which typified the more insular aspects of some LAC's - which W&L does, even though I'm sure it's a fine school.) Not every student is equally suited to every campus, both with ethnicity & personality considered, along with academics.

collegealum314

epiphany, I think the main point fabrizio was contesting was that Asians have an advantage in the application process at the LAC's you mentioned. It is unlikely that this is true considering they are already well-represented (in fact, over-represented.)

@Newjack: What I meant is that a relatively strong student would have no problem getting into Kenyon College or Washington & Lee.

epiphany

Post 1469:
"I have a friend who was invited to Kenyon's 'Diversity Weekend' thing and she's East Asian."

In 2007 the enrolled Asian population in Kenyon's freshman class was 24% (included Pacific Islander).

My point exactly.

"Over" and "under" represented are comparative terms, relative to applications, relative to recent student body statistics, relative to college goals to increase diversity overall, and in particular areas.

fabriziio needs to stop misleading the Asian applicants on cc. I'll say again: it's unrealistic & absurd to believe that admissions offices seriously expect a maximum enrollment rate of 4.4% Asians at any U.S. college. They'll be happy to welcome proportional student bodies that look much more like the Ivies, Swat, Wesleyan, etc. Further, the latters' loss is the gain of the competing LAC's, who are more than happy to reap the fruits of the overflow resulting from an excess of accomplished Asians applying to a narrow band of elites. Happy indeed. Welcoming to diversity weekend indeed.

fabrizio

How does this in any way respond to my paragraph? Was I talking about the quality of the SAT as an indicator of academic ability? No. I was talking about how “if forced to guess the SAT of a URM, it makes sense to guess a value lower than one would guess if the person were not a URM.”

sybbie719

At most companies that have a tuition aid plan, any fulltime or or qualified permanent part-time employee is eligible for tuition aid benefits. Our company gave tuition benefits starting on their first day of work.

Like everything else companies are cutting back on the amount of tuition they reimburse and ours also now has a service component (if they pay for your bachelors you must work 2 years for each each of tuition aid you receive, 3 years for a masters and 5 years for a PhD) but when I went to grad school. EMBAs are still fully funded by the company. One of my former co-worker was paying full freight for his son to attend college. When the son began messing up, dad brought him home, got him a job at the copy center and he is now going to school after work and the company is paying for it.

Up until 2000, the company paid full tuition no caps on the amount of money and there was not a service component (and I took them up on this by getting a masters from both an IVY and NYU). My 3rd masters in a totally different area, a paid for 1/2 of it my self because there were some courses that had overlap that could be work related.

What they found was people would come to work there, go to college or grad school and then leave hense the reason for the service requirement.

THey paid for him to attend college . It was just on the plain and simple fact that he was an employee and it was an employee benefit that has been extended to him and any other employee and not becasue he was a stellar employee.

If you can be admitted to an accredited school recieve at least a C, your tuition will be paid (when I first came to the company, as long as you passed, even with a D-, you still got tuition benefits. The company beleived that if you got too many D's that the school would take care of you on that end). Now if you work for the company your degree must be business related however I do know a couple of people who work for legal who had their law school tuition paid for (they attended part time programs).


When my sister worked for HR at Columbia University, for their employees, they pay 100% tuition for their employee's children who attend Columbia and 50% tuition for children to attend any other school (their benefits kick in on day one of employment).

At another company, Pratt & Whitney's part of their corporate philosophy is :
[i]Our goal is to have the best educated work force on the planet."[/quote]

to to put their $$ where their mouth is

fabrizio

Yes, collegealum314 understood the point of my post: why would Asians get preferential treatment at colleges where their percentages are more than double the nationwide percentage? None of those colleges you mentioned has a dearth of Asian students!

So, it’s all relative, but 47% absolutely is not OK? Also, what’s your point about the “enormous percentages of Asian applications to Ivies relative to the entire accepted student bodies there”? I’m not seeing it.

If you define “over” and “underrepresentation” in purely relative terms, then those words become meaningless. Let’s say the “college goal to increase diversity” is to go from 3% Asian to 50% Asian. If the college ends up getting 49% Asian, then Asians are underrepresented because the college didn’t meet its goal? If the college ends up getting 51% Asian, then Asians are overrepresented because the college didn’t meet its goal?

epiphany, I think you should be happy. For so long, you’ve claimed that Asians just can’t think beyond the Ivy Leagues. Now, it turns out that the schools you give as examples have an “overrepresentation” of Asians! In other words, Asians are finally listening to you, and you can stop ranting about how those damn black-haired kids just don’t get it.

fabrizio

So, it’s all relative but some numbers absolutely look better than others? I see. Who is misleading whom, epiphany?

fabrizio

But, what’s “qualified”? I can just claim to be qualified, and I’ll get money? Or do I have to prove it, and if so, how do I prove it? Is hard work the lone qualification?

Damn, can you PM me the name of this company? Sounds like one of the best companies to work for. A 2.0 GPA won’t kill your chances to work for this company, and you don’t even need to work that hard to get ridiculous benefits!

So, you need to be admitted and earn at least a 2.0 BEFORE they pay you? Makes more sense. But, I’m still confused because you talked about the “plain and simple fact that…it was an employee benefit.” Furthermore, in order for the 2.0 GPA dude to get into an accredited school, he’s going to have to be a stellar employee, no?

fabrizio

Can I have a link to this statistic? According to College Board, a recent freshman cohort was 5% Asian. According to Kenyon itself, 12% are "of color." So, how can the student body be 24% Asian when only 12% is "of color"?

Edit

Even if it were 24%, are you honestly trying to tell me that 24% Asian is not "overrepresentation"?

Newjack88

Look at what you said, "It doesn't have anything to do with assuming "that a person's academic abilities are lacking simply based on the color of their skin." It's just probability, and we humans aren't except from that branch of mathematics."

The way you wrote it says otherwise. It reads that, "It doesn't have anything to do with assuming "that a person's academic abilities are lacking simply based on the color of their skin." It's just probability that a person's academic abilities are lacking based on the color of their skin, and we humans aren't except from that branch of mathematics."

You needed to say what the probability was.

fabrizio

The irony. You claim that I put words in your mouth, when in actuality, I directly quote you; I insert no words of mine into those quotes. Yet, here you are, putting words in my mouth. Did I write those bolded words? No, you did. Did I even suggest those? No, you thought I did because you took that paragraph out of context. Had you bothered to read post #1489 in its entirety, you would have seen that your bolded words are entirely out of place. I will repost #1489 as follows:

I did not need to say what the probability was, for Weasel8488 had already referenced the probability concept: expected value. That was the basis of our discussion.

sybbie719

Fab, you're trying to make me work hard to day.

Employee benefits are just that , employee benefits if you are employed by the company you get the benefit whether you work in the mail room or the CEO. A qualified part time person refers to the fact that this company has different type of part time employees: there are temporary employees who work for a temporary agency, there are temps who work for the company and there are people who were hired as permanent part time employees or they have once worked full time and now have chosen part time employment. It really is just this simple. for example, if your company offers medical benefits to all of their full time or permanent part time employees, then all those employees get the benefit. (there are no conspiracy theories, and you don't have to do anything special other than be employed).


Now that there are caps on the tuition benefit, a permanent part time employee gets one half of the tuition benefit. for example I know a person who works at a company where they get $15,000 a year in tuition aid benefits (from january -december) to their full time employees. A permanent part time employee would get $7,500 a year in tuition aid benefits).

Say for example, you are working for our company in Georgia. You attend college in Georgia where you pay $5000 a term for tuition. Some schools, if you have a company tuition plan will allow you to defer payment, while other schools will request that you pay up front and let your employer reimburse you. You attend a school where if your school accepts your tuition aid plan, they defer your payment. You go to school, you pass all of your classes with at least a "C". You sumbit an official copy of your transcript or your grade report along with your tuition aid application, signed by your manager, and then you are reimbursed with in 2 weeks (if you get paid via direct deposit, they deposit the money just like they would your paycheck and then you are responsible for paying the school). For some students, this may be the only way they can attend college. They go to school after work, some attend college on weekends, some take courses on line, some borrow money for term and immediately pay off their loans once they get reimbursed.


All you have to do is to be employed. I have processed tuition payments for employees who were on probation. As long as they did not get fired before the term ended, they go reimbursed. Now that there is a service component, if they get fired, they have to pay the $$ back because they will not be working for the company to fulfill the service requirement.

Like I said, I have friends who work for Pratt and Whitney and at their company it does not matter what you major in, they will pay the cost of your tuition and books.

epiphany

"Now, it turns out that the schools you give as examples have an “overrepresentation” of Asians!"

No, they don't. Not if they're welcoming East Asians on diversity weekend, when their '07 CDS numbers said 24%.

Your last paragraph of post 1507 is nonsensical. I've never done any such thing on CC ("rant...about damn black-haired "...etc.). That's your own trolling & your own overblown bitterness coming through.

You've forever misrepresented me as being equivalent to admissions committees, and somehow being responsible for THEIR fluid standards of proportional representation, which do fluctuate relative to application numbers, historical student body composition, & their own goals, which I wouldn't know, not being an insider at all those colleges.

fabrizio

sybbie,

Thanks for the information. I did not know that some companies give away tuition aid to any employee who wants it, regardless of merit or financial need.