zoosermom

"Interests of legal residents subordinated to the interests of "invaders"?! If it weren't for the Chinese, this country would not have railroad tracks! "
You do understand that that immigration occurred at a different time and different circumstances, right? And that those immigrants and their descendants assimilated.

zoosermom

"Doesn't matter, many employers will turn a blind eye anyway"

Not the kind who offer benefits an a leg-up to the middle class. It's wonderful that you can read and repeat facts from others' works, but it's very clear that the real world is a foreign place for you. College will be a wonderful thing. I hope you gain wisdom and comprehension.

Bay

I don't make assumptions about peoples' intelligence when I have never met them. But I do think it is "stupid" to argue that providing a college degree to undocumented immigrants will enable them to "contribute more to this country" or attain careers better than McDonald's workers (your example), when they cannot legally be hired by any employer in the U.S. Unless the laws change between now and graduation, they will either need to return to their country of citizenship in order to get that high-powered career, or work illegally (via false documents or an employer willing to risk criminal prosecution for them) and hope that they can indefinitely evade detection.

radimom

It is estimated that 63,000--65,000 undocumented high school students PER YEAR, graduate in the United States. This is NOT a small issue.

Their right to public education up to age 18, has been affirmed by the US Supreme Court. Unless laws change that decision, they will have a continued right to that education. However, they are not eligible for federal financial aid, not being citizens, therefore they are in effect REQUIRED to get an education until age 18, and then FORBIDDEN to continue their education (except in some states).

Many youth did not have any choice about coming to this country. It was a decision their parents made--see the stories on this post, toddlers being carried thru the desert, families who flew in and entered with legal visitors' visas and then stayed, various means. Not every immigrant "jumped the fence." And youth generally do not have a choice about where their families locate (though they certainly have to live with the consequences).

The wage differential between the USA and many Caribbean and Latin American companies is something like this: as if Canada was offering jobs that paid $70 an hour! You can BET we would be flocking to Canada to pursue that kind of wage, or sending our youth there, for that kind of opportunity (that figure is from Time magazine, sometime in the last 2 years). It's a no-brainer!

There have been moves to close the public school system to undocumented students in various cities--LA, Chicago I think, for instance. The POLICE DEPARTMENTS of those cities strongly OPPOSED those moves, as it would have been a huge population management and enforcement issue for them to deal with a large youth population not in school and not employed. Google the issue on the Internet and you can find more information about this (that is how I know--never would have occurred to me to think of that factor). (And this is not meant to be a racist comment--I would posit that if the teens of any of the poshest suburbs of our nation were not in school or not employed, there would also be management and enforcement issues).

"Going back and entering the USA properly" is not a particularly simple issue. First of all there is the cost of a plane ticket, to be paid for with low under-the-table wages, and it is no longer cheap to fly, anywhere. (Clearly there are those who do not enter by plane, but in those cases as well, returning is not cheap).

More important, there are yearly visa and immigration quotas imposed on a number of other countries--so if you are from a country that is under quota limitations, it might be 8--10 YEARS before you received a visa to return to the USA. What does that look like for a 7 year old, or a 17 year old--or anyone, eager to move forward in their life? Check out the list of countries that have quota restriction on the Internet--it's an interesting picture of who our government has deemed more or less "desirable." Or maybe it was just random?

There are various ways that the above-mentioned high school graduates can become legal residents and eventually citizens, if they so choose (and then employable like the rest of us). They can be sponsored by family members, as described above, if family members themselves are legal residents, citizens, and adults. There are waiting periods in every case--legal residency, wait 2-3 years, sponsor next person, who waits 2-3 years, becomes a legal resident, sponsors next person, and so forth. Minor children can be sponsored with their parents, but if children turn 18 during the process, they must be sponsored as an adult and the 2-3 year waiting period is in effect. They can get married--heck, people got married in the 60's to avoid the Vietnam draft, it has been done before. They can be sponsored by anyone(legal) who is willing to vouch for their economic care until they themselves become legal residents and can work legally. Any volunteers? Who wouldn't want to give a leg up to someone who showed initiative, ambition, and persistence?

My opinion (not a factor, but a perspective to consider) is that many immigrants have shown a high degree if initiative, persistence, and desire--and this is JUST the sort of citizens that our country needs. Active, pro-active citizens contribute much to our country. And part of who we are as a nation, I believe, is due to the pro-active immigrants who for centuries who had the courage to let go of all that was familiar, to grasp a dream of something better--pilgrims in 1620 to doctoral students in 2008.

radimom

I should also have mentioned that the waiting time and the underfunded government system that deals with all this, means that there is an excruciatingly long time lag for becoming legal, as referred to briefly in other posts on this thread. This is another factor which makes this a complex problem, not easily dismissed or solved.

zoosermom

Look, I am beyond sympathetic and respectful, which is why I spend so much time helping illegal immigrants to learn to read. However, I don't think legalizing or providing amnesty is the answer. These hardworking, aspiring people should be offering their skills and work ethic to their own countries. We should not support corrupt governments on the backs of American taxpayers and the poor in their own countries. We need to support enforcement of laws that will encourage illegal immigrants to return home and make better lives in their countries and to elevate their communities. I notice that no one has addressed my point about the families left behind. It's time for the governments of affected countries to step up. There is no excuse for not closing the border.

vossron

"We should not support corrupt governments on the backs of American taxpayers"

This more properly applies to Washington DC than Mexico City.

zoosermom

"This more properly applies to Washington DC than Mexico City."

Not at all. Sniping does not fact make.

tanveer149

@Bay I believe if an illeagal person is able to find a job and the employer is willing to sponsor him that person can become naturalized. However, willing employers are usually found at those jobs which require college degrees.

zoosermom

"We can either chose to see where the problem is REALLY coming from or we can continue to divide one another. Oh wait let me stop before someone calls me a communist. Ridiculous."

The problem is the governments who refuse to provide minimal quality of life for its little, brown people (and it is racially motivated), forces them to risk their lives and separate their families, and then builds prosperity for the chosen few with the money sent by those poor people. It's people like YOU who are not friends to the people who are being used and abused. How many do you know, personally? How can you ignore their wish to make their lives at home with the families and cultres? Coming here, for many illegals, is the measure of last resort, not an affirmative choice. They are shoed away like stray dogs by their own governments. That is to whom the outrage should be directed. Ignoring the open border is good for no one.

galoisien

Ultimately in the long-run, people make an economy.

Economically speaking, I don't see how making the supposed "original" nation help them incurs any more global net benefit than to have them here. A poor, hardworking individual is always a benefit, not a liability. The point of economic subsidies is to provide public goods and to provide corrections for spillover benefits. More immigrants mean a larger investment, but also a larger rate of return.

It is like demanding that the birth mother who gave her daughter up for adoption suddenly pay for that daughter's college expenses. Perhaps it should be treated like how colleges treat kids with noncustodial parents -- if said parents haven't been in the child's life for a dozen years, why bring them back into the picture by making them pay the financial aid?

The reason to provide welfare or other equivalents of aid and redistribution, is not as a moral obligation, but as an economic decision to maximise future production. It is "get onto your feet" aid.

And so if the rich in those countries are blind to the benefits of long-term sponsorship of the education and development of the poor, then ultimately they lose.

We should be angry at their myopia, and perhaps we feel pinched because the capital resources the rich over there would have is not available to us, but if the hospitals are overcrowded now, not opening the borders would prevent 25,000 immigrants from becoming doctors every year (after some point in the future, say).

zoosermom

"The reason to provide welfare or other equivalents of aid and redistribution, is not as a moral obligation, but as an economic decision to maximise future production. It is "get onto your feet" aid. "

It should be coming from their own governments so they can stay in their own homes, which is what many want. When you grow up you will understand.

vossron

"When you grow up you will understand."

Insults are not necessary. It can work both ways: "When you grow up you will become embittered and selfish."

FLVADAD

You don't have to like the law, but it is to be respected. Just because you feel it is unjust is not a valid reason to wantonly ignore it or break it.

We have due process in this country to change and amend laws that citizens want changed. But first you have to be a citizen. People who are here legally vote, they choose representatives to legislate on behalf of their interests, they lobby, they petition, they build coalitions, etc. They do not simply ignore the law and do whatever they please because they don't personally agree. In my view, it is impossible for illegals to justify having citizen's rights based a moral high ground when they simultaneously disregard and disrespect basic laws and due process. The latter completely undermines any kind of moral or ethical position.

Bay

tanveer,

Yes, it is possible to obtain legal status through employment, but it is lengthy complex process that is unlikely to be immediately helpful to job-seeking undocumented college grads.

Immigration through Employment