Selective Colleges Admitting Students with Below 3.75 GPA

tokenadult · 09-18-2008, 11:44 AM

At this time of year, a lot of seniors get mid-quarter grades and start worrying about their grade point averages in their high school courses. I see a LOT of threads on this College Admissions Forum and on the Parents Forum about what GPA ruins an applicant's chances at a selective college. I did an online search for information about twenty-five research universities, the twenty-five that this year have been identified by U.S. News as the "best value" national research universities. If you follow the College Board College QuickFinder links I've provided below, you could search up information about other colleges. The short answer is that there are a lot of good colleges that explicitly report that they admit dozens of students with grade averages below 3.75, and there are other colleges that hide the ball by not reporting what grade average ranges there are in their enrolled classes. Harvard explicitly says it does NOT have a minimum grade point average requirement (no doubt because high schools vary in their grading standards, and high school students vary in what kind of courses they take in high school). It's a good idea to get good grades wherever you are applying, but you shouldn't get sick with worry if your formerly perfect grade average finally starts to drop below 4.0 (or 100 percent) in senior year.

Here's a first quick-and-dirty look at the data reported by the colleges for the Common Data Set Initiative. Further links, follow-up questions about what this means, discussion, and quotations from college websites about grades of applicants are most welcome. Enjoy. Good luck in your applications.

HARVARD UNIVERSITY

College Search - Harvard College - At a Glance

95% in top 10th of graduating class, 100% in top quarter of graduating class

The Harvard viewbook

http://www.admissions.college.harvar...lo0809_Q&A.pdf

has a Frequently Asked Question response about this issue:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harvard viewbook

Must a student have certain grades or marks to be considered for admission?

The Admissions Committee recognizes that schools vary by size, academic program, and grading policies, so we do not have rigid grade requirements. There is no single academic path we expect all students to follow, but the strongest applicants take the most rigorous secondary school curricula available to them. We do seek students who achieve at a high level, and most admitted students rank in the top 10–15 percent of their graduating class.

PRINCETON UNIVERSITY

College Search - Princeton University - At a Glance

* 96% in top 10th of graduating class
* 99% in top quarter of graduating class
* 100% in top half of graduating class

* 82% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
* 11% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
* 4% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
* 3% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24

Princeton's admissions FAQ

Princeton University | Secondary School Credentials

says

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princeton admission office

Is there an advantage to taking honors, advanced, Advanced Placement or International Baccalaureate courses — even if it might be tougher to earn high grades?

Yes. We consider it a promising sign when students challenge themselves with advanced courses in high school. We understand that not all secondary schools offer the same range of advanced courses, but our strongest candidates have taken full advantage of the academic opportunities available to them in their high schools.

YALE UNIVERSITY

College Search - Yale University - At a Glance

97% in top 10th of graduating class

Yale's FAQ about applying to Yale College

Applying to Yale College | Frequently Asked Questions | Office of Undergraduate Admissions

says

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yale admission office

The single most important document in the application is the high school transcript, which tells us a great deal about a student's academic motivation and performance over time. We look for students who have consistently taken a broad range of challenging courses in high school and done well in them.

MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY

College Search - Massachusetts Institute of Technology - MIT - At a Glance

* 97% in top 10th of graduating class
* 100% in top quarter of graduating class
* 100% in top half of graduating class

MIT's admissions FAQ

MIT Admissions: Recommended High School Preparation

says

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIT admission office

What we really want to see on your application is you being you - pursuing the things you love, growing, changing, taking risks, learning from your mistakes, all in your own distinctive way. College is not a costume party; you're not supposed to come dressed as someone else.

STANFORD UNIVERSITY

College Search - Stanford University - THE FARM - At a Glance

* 91% in top 10th of graduating class
* 98% in top quarter of graduating class
* 100% in top half of graduating class

* 93% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
* 6% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
* 1% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49

CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY

College Search - California Institute of Technology - CALTECH - At a Glance

# 99% in top 10th of graduating class
# 100% in top quarter of graduating class

DARTMOUTH COLLEGE

College Search - Dartmouth College - At a Glance

* 91% in top 10th of graduating class

* 62% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
* 18% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
* 10% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
* 6% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
* 2% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99
* 1% had h.s. GPA between 2.0 and 2.49
* 1% had h.s. GPA between 1.0 and 1.99

COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY

College Search - Columbia University - Columbia - At a Glance

(No information on College Board site.)

Columbia's admission FAQ

Applications & Admission Process | Columbia University Office of Undergraduate Admissions

says

Quote:

Originally Posted by Columbia admission office

Is there a minimum test score, class rank or GPA required for admission to Columbia?

No. Columbia does not have a “cut-off” GPA or test score for applicants. All applications receive a thorough review by the Committee on Admissions, regardless of GPA or test scores.

Columbia's admission statistics

Admission Statistics | Columbia University Office of Undergraduate Admissions

report statistics for ADMITTED students as of May, and thus overstate requirements needed to be part of the enrolled class in the fall. The statistics say

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admitted Student Statistics

* Of schools that provided us with a class rank, approximately 93% of accepted students were in the top 10% of their graduating class; 98% were in the top 20% of their class.

UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA--CHAPEL HILL

College Search - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill - UNC - At a Glance

* 76% in top 10th of graduating class
* 95% in top quarter of graduating class
* 99% in top half of graduating class

* 93% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
* 4% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
* 1% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
* 1% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
* 1% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99

RICE UNIVERSITY

College Search - Rice University - Rice - At a Glance

* 83% in top 10th of graduating class
* 95% in top quarter of graduating class
* 99% in top half of graduating class

UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA

College Search - University of Pennsylvania - Penn - At a Glance

* 96% in top 10th of graduating class
* 99% in top quarter of graduating class
* 100% in top half of graduating class

* 65% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
* 16% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
* 11% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
* 5% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
* 3% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99

DUKE UNIVERSITY

College Search - Duke University - Duke - At a Glance

* 90% in top 10th of graduating class
* 97% in top quarter of graduating class
* 100% in top half of graduating class

UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO

College Search - University of Chicago - Chicago - At a Glance

* 83% in top 10th of graduating class
* 98% in top quarter of graduating class
* 100% in top half of graduating class

* 89% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
* 6% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
* 2% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
* 1% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
* 2% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99

VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY

College Search - Vanderbilt University - Vandy - At a Glance

* 80% in top 10th of graduating class
* 95% in top quarter of graduating class
* 99% in top half of graduating class

* 49% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
* 24% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
* 16% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
* 7% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
* 3% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99
* 1% had h.s. GPA between 2.0 and 2.49

SUNY COLLEGE OF ENV. SCI. & FORESTRY

College Search - State University of New York College of Environmental Science and Forestry - ESF - At a Glance

* 24% in top 10th of graduating class
* 55% in top quarter of graduating class
* 91% in top half of graduating class

UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA

College Search - University of Virginia - UVA - At a Glance

* 87% in top 10th of graduating class
* 96% in top quarter of graduating class
* 99% in top half of graduating class

* 85% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
* 9% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
* 3% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
* 2% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
* 1% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99

BROWN UNIVERSITY

College Search - Brown University - Brown - At a Glance

* 92% in top 10th of graduating class
* 99% in top quarter of graduating class
* 100% in top half of graduating class

[quote=Brown University admission office]

Code:

 
 
                  Applied      Accepted    % Accepted    Enrolled

Valedictorian      1,151          367        32%           154 
Salutatorian         522          142        27%            75 
Total Top Tenth    6,254        1,129        18%           590 
2nd Tenth & below  1,815           62         3%            44 
from schools      12,564        1,635        13%           925 
that do not 
provide class rank

Brown Admission: Facts & Figures

EMORY UNIVERSITY

College Search - Emory University - At a Glance

* 85% in top 10th of graduating class
* 95% in top quarter of graduating class
* 100% in top half of graduating class

* 51% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
* 31% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
* 14% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
* 3% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
* 1% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99

See also

http://www.emory.edu/PROVOST/IPR/doc...S2007_2008.pdf

for the same figures with the percentages rounded off a little more exactly.

JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY

College Search - Johns Hopkins University - Hopkins - At a Glance

* 82% in top 10th of graduating class
* 97% in top quarter of graduating class
* 100% in top half of graduating class

* 50% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
* 27% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
* 17% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
* 4% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
* 2% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99

NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY

College Search - Northwestern University - NU - At a Glance

* 85% in top 10th of graduating class
* 97% in top quarter of graduating class
* 99% in top half of graduating class

UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME

College Search - University of Notre Dame - Notre Dame - At a Glance

* 87% in top 10th of graduating class
* 97% in top quarter of graduating class
* 100% in top half of graduating class

WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY IN ST. LOUIS

College Search - Washington University in St. Louis - Washington U. - At a Glance

(No information on College Board site.)

NORTH CAROLINA STATE UNIVERSITY--RALEIGH

College Search - North Carolina State University - NC State - At a Glance

* 34% in top 10th of graduating class
* 78% in top quarter of graduating class
* 98% in top half of graduating class

* 85% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
* 10% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
* 3% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
* 1% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
* 1% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99

CORNELL UNIVERSITY

College Search - Cornell University - At a Glance

* 87% in top 10th of graduating class
* 98% in top quarter of graduating class
* 100% in top half of graduating class

CASE WESTERN RESERVE UNIVERSITY

College Search - Case Western Reserve University - Case - At a Glance

* 66% in top 10th of graduating class
* 92% in top quarter of graduating class
* 99% in top half of graduating class

britbrat1961 · 09-18-2008, 11:59 AM

Great data, but to my point, the class ranking is also very important to these colleges and if your s or d goes to a small selective school where many make great grades, it is tough. At my son's school, there are 220 seniors this year. His class ranking is #13 with a 4.5 weighted GPA, 8 AP's and an unweighted GPA of 3.94. You have to be #22 or above to be in the top 10% of the class. Where do you think the students with a 3.75 GPA rate in a school with such a small senior class?

tokenadult · 09-18-2008, 12:32 PM

That's a good follow-up question, to which I will ask a follow-up question of my own. What has been the experience in the last few years of the students of similar GPAs or rank at the high school your son attends? What kind of colleges did those young people get into?

britbrat1961 · 09-18-2008, 12:56 PM

As I stated in another post, the school has been around for 21 years, rated the 5th highest academically in OC, CA and until last year, not 1 student had been accepted to Stanford. All of a sudden, last year, 6 were accepted.

The UC system has its own calculation for acceptance, but they also have a process whereby the top 4% of students in the state can be guaranteed admission to one of the UC schools, simply from their GPA and class ranking.
The key issue here....top 4%! At my son's school, only the top 8 students were offered admission due to only having 220 seniors.

Here is a link for the actual matriculation facts for last year that is off the schools website.

http://www.ocsarts.net/files/matriculation2008.pdf

tokenadult · 11-28-2008, 01:04 PM

I'm reviving this thread because this is still a recurrent question on the forum.

hmom5 · 11-28-2008, 02:19 PM

When you factor in that 40% of each class is comprised of recruited athletes, URMs and legacies (then add low income/first generation/geog diversity), you have to wonder what percent who don't fit into one of those groups has below the 3.75.

JW Muller · 11-28-2008, 06:02 PM

Very nice data, Tokenadult. I note that the University of Chicago, in comparison to Stanford and Duke, dips lower into the GPA, but has 25-75% CR SAT's higher than Stanford and Duke.

UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO
* 83% in top 10th of graduating class
* 89% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
* 6% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
SAT CR 25-75%: 670-770

STANFORD UNIVERSITY
* 91% in top 10th of graduating class
* 93% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
* 6% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
SAT CR 25-75%: 660-760

DUKE UNIVERSITY
* 90% in top 10th of graduating class
SAT CR 25-75%: 650-760

College Navigator - Compare Institutions

Does this make University of Chicago an answer to my question, SAT's > GPA. Where to apply?

If University of Chicago is demonstrating a relative preference for SAT's over GPA's, are there other selective colleges similarly inclined?

CountingDown · 11-28-2008, 06:12 PM

JW Muller,
Chicago REALLY cares about the courses one takes, and that is where a slightly lower GPA but extremely tough schedules may come into play.

My S was NOT top 10% and a 3.76 UW but got into both MIT and Chicago EA. It can happen! No doubt his tough schedule (9 APs and 13 post-AP courses) told schools he was unafraid of challenges or Bs.

JW Muller · 11-28-2008, 06:27 PM

I don't about Chicago it doesn't appear to ad up. Stanford accepts 10%, Duke 23% and Chicago 38%. Unless Chicago's applicant pool is freakishly different, I don't see how they get higher SAT's in any category than Stanford and Duke without machinations.

Bay · 11-28-2008, 06:29 PM

I have found OP's data difficult to apply in practical terms, because a student's GPA can be calculated so many different ways. Some universities give extra weight to honors classes and AP classes, and no weight to other classes like P.E., drama, student government, etc. Also, our high school does not officially rank, so the ranking data is not helpful. Further, the competitiveness of the high school has got to factor into consideration when evaluating applicants: a 3.75 GPA/top quarter rank with 6 AP courses at an extremely competitive school has got to trump a 3.9/top 10% rank with no honors or AP courses at a low-performing public high school, for example.

CountingDown · 11-28-2008, 06:32 PM

My opinion: self-selection. Chicago has a certain perspective (or at least they have in the past; it is trying to change that to a certain degree) that is very attractive to a subset of students. Students who particularly like Chicago are not likely to care for Duke or Stanford. Certainly was the case at our house.

See this thread for JHS's cogent discussion of Chicago's acceptance rate.
I could not figure out, could you ?

sybbie719 · 11-28-2008, 06:40 PM

I agree that GPAs and grading stuctures vary from school to school and all 3.75 gpas are not created equally.

OP must also take into consideration that some students admitted with slightly lower gpas are admitted through various opportunity programs for students who would be considered educationally and economically disadvantaged (for example HEOP in NYS privates that participate, EOP for SUNY publics, SEEK & College Discovery at the CUNY level, C-STEP programs at schools specifically seeking students for science and technology programs, TRIO programs, etc.) and these programs vary from state to state.

The "cut off" gpa and SAT scores also vary from program to program and from state to state. While there may be a little wiggle room for gpa and sat scores most programs do have federal income guidelines.

tokenadult · 11-28-2008, 07:22 PM

Quote:

I agree that GPAs and grading stuctures vary from school to school and all 3.75 gpas are not created equally.

Yes, this is the main point of this thread. On the one hand, the senior who is applying this year about to get his first grade of B shouldn't be freaking out. And on the other hand, the junior who decides to only take non-AP courses to preserve a perfect 4.0 may be turning himself into a chump. Colleges can look beyond the grade average to what courses a particular student was taking at a particular high school.

iwannagotobrown · 11-30-2008, 10:11 PM

Im a junior and i might get a c in one of my classes..help me

molliegym · 11-30-2008, 10:43 PM

Yes, people have gotten in to good colleges with a C. People have probably even gotten in to Brown with a C.

If you think you might get a C, however, do try to bring it up. Talk to the teacher, if you can. Study harder (don't cram for the tests!). Do the homework. Take notes and pay attention in class.