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"I know many 2400 4.0 valedictorians get rejected from ALL Ivies."

monstor344monstor344 Posts: 2,502Registered User Senior Member
edited November 2010 in College Admissions
I've seen this line and very similar variants of it posted on these forums quite often. But the more I think and look into it, the more skeptical I am of its truthfulness. First of all, according to Collegeboard's website, only around 250 kids out of hundreds of thousands of test-takers earn a 2400 annually. The number of incoming freshmen enrolled in the ivy league each year is close to 15000. Doesn't it seem certain that at least one ivy will accept one of these extremely rare applicants? That's not to say that some ivies, particularly HYP, will reject those applicants, but it appears next to impossible that they will be rejected from all 8, unless there was something seriously unappealing about the applicant (expulsion, criminal, etc). I just feel that this forum puts too much emphasis on an applicant's ECs without really considering how accomplished they are from their scores. I mean, surely not every ivy league student has started a million-dollar charity or cured some disease or won a national award, right? I mean, there can only be so many of those types.
Post edited by monstor344 on
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Replies to: "I know many 2400 4.0 valedictorians get rejected from ALL Ivies."

  • Columbia109Columbia109 Posts: 45- Junior Member
    generally this is untrue, because these applicants are very rare.
    A 4.0 non asian with an sat score above 2200 is almost a given at any ivy they choose. The 4.0 2400 rejects are usually really smart asian kids who deserve to go to an ivy league school but under activities list like one thing so colleges immediately are like ehh sorry.
  • Sea LegsSea Legs Posts: 177Registered User Junior Member
    I don't think the collegeboard takes superscored 2400's into account with that "250" figure.
  • anonymityyyanonymityyy Posts: 261Registered User Junior Member
    Reading CC, you would think that at least half of the nation's 2400-scorers congregate on this forum. Which...is possible, but I seriously doubt it.
  • USNAgolden2014USNAgolden2014 Posts: 336Registered User Member
    I'm sick of asians complaining about their "woeful" status
    I mean seriously, are you kidding me?
    Asian Americans make up 3-4% of the US population and at every top college they
    make up 20-30% of the population....
    If they were that heavily "discriminated" against, that number wouldn't be above 10%

    Sorry that "4.0 non-asian" just really irritates me
    *steps off soapbox*

    And I agree with the OP, scores can't be as meaningless as CC makes it seem. I think the cases of 4.0 2400s getting rejected are outliers/anomalies, it's probably one of those vocal minority kind of things (only the rejected 2400s say anything)

    I mean harvard accepts 45% of all single-sitting 2400s, those are pretty good odds...
    and like the OP said, it's hard to believe that all 15,000 spots are taken by teenage superstars who already have their own research published / started the world's 9th largest charity

    lol CC just exists to advise and humble you =D and you have to come to accept that
  • MD MomMD Mom Posts: 6,728Registered User Senior Member
    Daughter's school's valedictorian (NMS, 4.0, 2300, All-State chorus, great ecs, yadayadayada) was rejected at Harvard (also a legacy), Princeton, and Yale. She did get in to Brown. Super arrogant girl. It happens.
  • brassmonkeybrassmonkey Posts: 1,491Registered User Senior Member
    250 does not include the superscores.
  • MD MomMD Mom Posts: 6,728Registered User Senior Member
    Doesn't the superscoring start for next year's seniors? I thought that it became available after most 2009 grads had their applications in.
  • amciwamciw Posts: 1,755Registered User Senior Member
    Daughter's school's valedictorian (NMS, 4.0, 2300, All-State chorus, great ecs, yadayadayada) was rejected at Harvard (also a legacy), Princeton, and Yale. She did get in to Brown. Super arrogant girl. It happens.

    It sounds like the admissions committees did an excellent job discerning her character; congratulations to them for making such a good selection.

    Regarding the initial thread, you are right. Its highly unlikely Cornell would reject you with a 2400 and 4.0, and even so, your chances are great at any college except Harvard, Yale or Princeton.
  • C'BadDadC'BadDad Posts: 136Registered User Junior Member
    There are about 5,000 kids who get 2300 and up. Thats a lot more than the 250 or so who get 2400.
  • tokenadulttokenadult Posts: 17,473Super Moderator Senior Member
    http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/sat_percentile_ranks_2008_composite_cr_m_w.pdf

    I have no reason to believe that showing "superscored" SAT scores for each individual would increase the number of students at each score level by more than 50 percent. In other words, I think that by any method of counting subscores, fewer than 500 students per graduating class have attained a 2400 on the SAT. Scores of 2300 are substantially more common, and not what this thread is about.

    See also

    http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/413821-sat-score-frequencies-freshman-class-sizes.html

    and

    http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/377882-how-do-top-scorers-tests-fail-gain-admission-top-schools.html
  • big dreamerbig dreamer Posts: 2,920Registered User Senior Member
    If this counts for anything:

    The valedictorian from my high school this past year had 4.0 GPA, 2390 SAT, great ECs, all-state XC + track, solid essays/recs, non-Asian, got NMS semi-finalist, etc. and he got into Yale, Brown, Princeton, Stanford, and Dartmouth, among other schools. He got into Yale SCEA and will attend there in the fall.

    Just thought that this would be intersting to share! ;)
  • OldengrOldengr Posts: 22Registered User New Member
    . . . 4.0 GPA, 2390 SAT, great ECs, all-state XC + track, solid essays/recs, non-Asian, got NMS semi-finalist . . .

    4.0, 2390 SAT solid recs and only a NMS semi-finalist? What do you need to be a finalist?
  • schee410schee410 Posts: 500Registered User Member
    To go from semi-finalist to finalist standing, you need to fill out an application that the NMSC sends your school. My sister didn't fill out the application and didn't move on to finalist status.
  • ThisCouldBeHeavnThisCouldBeHeavn Posts: 16,060- Senior Member
    Obviously when they say 2400 they don't mean it literally. They're just referring to people with very good numbers.
  • siserunesiserune Posts: 1,618Registered User Senior Member
    "I know many 2400 4.0 valedictorians get rejected from ALL Ivies." I've seen this line and very similar variants of it posted on these forums quite often. But the more I think and look into it, the more skeptical I am of its truthfulness. First of all, according to Collegeboard's website, only around 250 kids out of hundreds of thousands of test-takers earn a 2400 annually. The number of incoming freshmen enrolled in the ivy league each year is close to 15000. Doesn't it seem certain that at least one ivy will accept one of these extremely rare applicants?

    That's it in a nutshell. There are more like 6000-8000 unhooked places, and the number of high scorers is larger than 250 due to the uncertainty of scores and the use of per-section highest scores compressing the range. The guy with 2350 might be better at testing than the one with 2400. The calibration becomes better when you add more tests, so 2400 is really a shorthand for very high performance on the SAT I + II + AP + (whatever else). People with perfect SAT were getting in at around 40 percent probability at Harvard over the years, 40-60 percent at other Ivy League schools, Duke about 50 percent for 2300+ SAT, 60 percent for 2350+ SAT. Add 10-20 percent to these numbers for applicants with grades in the top decile of one's high school (RP and Early Admissions Game study data that I mentioned in recent threads).

    That's per school. Unless there's something about an applicant that shuts him out of all the top schools, the numbers game is overwhelmingly in favor of acceptance at one or more of the best schools for someone with OK grades and monster scores.
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