Ravi7791

First of all, it's just silly to compare the prices of two computers with completely different specs.

Secondly, an upgrade to 2GB is $175 on the Macbook. You don't have to pay a "couple thousand" to get a Mac with 2GBs of RAM. Also, buying and installing the ram yourself would be cheaper ($30-50), avoiding the $175 upgrade.

UCLAri

Wow...so much ignorance here.

Where to begin?

1. What makes it "worthless?" I love my Nano, and think it's pretty much the best MP3 player for what I needed.
2. Sell the printer, then.
3. Not true. I've had hard drives fail in new computers. How was that my fault? How abut having the same computer's motherboard fry three times just using it for internet?

I shelled out the extra because I wanted a computer that would run quickly, do everything well, and offer me an operating environment that I enjoy using. I also wanted a thin notebook that didn't weigh too much.

Macs are not for people who just want a throwaway computer. They're not the Hyundais of the computer world. They're the BMWs.

Like what? I have yet to find something I can't do on my Mac.

You're paying more for a lot of things.

You're paying more for the included service, the OS, the completeness of the package, and the whole overall "experience." It's not just the aesthetics. But even so... why shouldn't I enjoy the aesthetics of something I stare at for hours? Why shouldn't I be able to do things quickly and efficiently? I loved how easily I got work done in Excel and Stata compared to on my Windows machines.

Define "overpriced." Compare Macs to Lenovos, and you'll find they're quite comparably priced.

Try all Blizzard games, all new EA games, Civ, and most of the new big names.

That, and I CAN USE WINDOWS. I play Oblivion on my MBP.

By the way, I also do everything else on my Mac. The only time I switch to Windows is to run Oblivion. That's it. I ran 40 man raids in WoW all the time on my Mac. It performed splendidly.

Except...not. But why should reality get in the way of irrational behavior?

What happens if the $650 computer goes kaput? Who fixes it? What's the battery life like? Will it be easy to get things upgraded? Is it reliable?

Hyundais may have 10 year warranties. Cheap computers don't. When you buy a better computer, you're hedging against the future.

fhqwgads2005

LOL dude, about the BMW comment. I happen to own a BMW and it is probably the trashiest, most unreliable car I have ever owned. None of the windows open or close (except maybe a few times a year), the steering wheel FELL OFF when I was turning out of my driveway , the gas gauge only goes up to the middle after I fill the tank, and then quickly drops to zero, the the automatic transmission does not shift sometimes, the washer fluid low light comes on even when it's not low, and I could just go on all day.

I don't think Macs are like BMWs at all!


I totally agree with the rest of your post though!

UCLAri

What year BMW is it?

Really though, your single car is not indicative of any trend. You can find unreliable Toyotas, but that doesn't mean that they are, on average, bad cars.

Thaitan

Nice stuff UCLAri I agree with everything you said.

Sibelius

Here's a question: Is there anything (other than some video/graphics crap) you can do on a Mac but not on a PC? Not really. As for "user experience", I have no problem with windows. In fact, I downright like it. I've used Macs several times, and I couldn't stand them. Bottom line: I'm not paying an extra 500-1000 for a computer with prettier graphics.

fhqwgads2005

I like the fact that on a Mac, I plug my peripherals (printer, some audio recording stuff, scanner, etc) in for the first time, and I can use them right away. Then, even after the first time, I plug them in and use them right away.

On my windows computer, the first time I plugged them in, I had to install the drivers that came on a CD with the product. Then, I had to restart the computer. Then, I was having all sorts of locking issues, so I had to go the the manufacturer's site and download the latest drivers. Then, I had to uninstall the old drivers, restart, and install the new drivers. Then, I had to install the new ones, and restart again. Now, the locking goes away. But, every time I plug in anything, it takes all this time for the computer to detect it so I always have to wait.

bottom line: with windows, there is always so much fussing around you have to do. People have gotten so used to it, that they can't even imagine computing without doing these things. Some people may enjoy having to tweak things and go under the hood of their OS, (I once did), But after you move to Mac, you realize that when you are on a computer, you don't want to be messing around with settings and installing things, you want to be productive and use the computer how it's supposed to be used.



BTW, my car is a 1995 BMW 525i with, get this, 65,000 Miles on it!!! Even with so few miles, it's already so crappy. I also have a friend with a 1997 model, and it is just slightly more reliable than mine.

1of42

Play my extensive catalog of games without the slowdowns and headache associated with an emulator. No, I don't care that EA is now slowly releasing their new games on Mac. No, I don't care that Blizzard is either. Those 2 are nice, but while they are huge companies, as a percentage of the market Macs are still missing a great deal.

Upgrade the computer with any hardware I want. There is no good reason from my point of view not to be able to freely upgrade - which is why I'll never use a Mac desktop. Laptop, maybe - but why not just get a cheaper laptop of equivalent quality, and install Linux for a cheaper and better OS (since I would game on a desktop)?

Yes, they are comparable to Lenovo's business line, which has long been considered the most high-build-quality line of laptops in the business. Despite what is oft repeated, those laptops have Macs pretty soundly beaten for quality.

However, Apple laptops don't beat the numerous other brands of excellent laptops out there (Sager, Asus, etc.) that aren't so mainstream and yet are excellent when compared in quality and price.

I don't enjoy tweaking or going under the hood overly much - I set my stuff up right the first time, and don't have to deal with crap ever again. That said, I want the ability to do so if I need or want to, in as much detail and depth as I can handle.

quitejaded

If you have the money for a macbook, get it. My family is rich enough for laptops between 1000 to 2000 dollars. This one I'm on now was 1500. Might as well get a macbook. And a free ipod nano and printer to SELL. To get what I really want.

UCLAri

1of42,

Again, you're thinking of this as a gamer, not as the average user.

Most people will not upgrade anything in a laptop. Even in a desktop, upgrades usually involve more RAM or another disk drive.

If you want upgradability, you can pick up a Mac Pro, but those are definitely not for the average end user. The point of buying a Mac over a Sager or Asus is that you get guaranteed service and a big brand name backing up your investment.

You also get Mac OS, which despite your apparent dislike, is an excellent environment for most people to do what they want and need.

If my Asus has a problem, where do I get it fixed? If my Mac has a problem, I go to the Apple Store. When I bought a Macbook for my girlfriend, we got one that had a problem with the drive. We went back and they swapped it for a new one. If I had ordered an Asus, how long would it have taken to get one back? A week? Two?

There's more to a computer than just how many points it scores in 3DMark.

ND6

What is the point of arguing between MAC and WINDOWS? Both are equally useful in the eye of the end user. Threads like this should be burned and trashed.

If you have the money, by all means, go for the MAC. If you simply don't care, like me, go with Windows. Macbooks in the college scene seem to have a lot of problems, (dvd drive, hdd), according to my experience. Sending in computers for repair during the school year can be very hurtful to the student.

I just priced a Dell E1520--
Module Description Show Details
Inspiron 1520 Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7300 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB/4MB cache)
Operating System (Office software not included) Genuine Windows ® Vista Home Premium Edition
System Color Jet Black
Memory FREE! 2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 667MHz
LCD Panel High Resolution, glossy widescreen 15.4 inch display (1440x900)
Video Card 256MB NVIDIA® GeForce® Go 8600M GT
Hard Drive 160G 7200RPM SATA HDD
Network Card and Modem Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem
Adobe Software Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.08
Combo or DVD+RW Drive CD / DVD writer (DVD+/-RW Drive)
Sound Card High Definition Audio 2.0
Wireless Networking Cards Dell Wireless 1390 802.11g Mini-Card
Camera Integrated 2.0M Pixel Webcam
Office Productivity Software (Pre-Installed) Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD
Anti-Virus/Security Suite (Pre-installed) No security subscription (McAfee 30-day trial)
Battery Options 56Whr Lithium Ion Battery (6 cell)
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options 1Yr Ltd Warranty and Mail-In Service
Dell On Call No Dell On Call
Dial-Up Internet Access No ISP requested
Miscellaneous Inspiron 1520
Bluetooth Options Built-in Bluetooth capability (2.0 EDR)
Dell Recycling Free Recycling Kit
Dell Digital Entertainment No Entertainment software pre-installed
Datasafe Free 3 GB Online Backup for 1Yr
Doms Camera Module Jet Black color w/ 2.0M pixel Camera
Processor Branding Intel® Core™2 Duo Label
Labels Windows Vista™ Premium

TOTAL:$1,218.00

Pretty much EQUAL specs to a mbp, price a LOT lower. Again, if you have the money, stay classy with a a mac

1of42

UCLAri: Yes, you're right. My looking at it from the perspective of a power user wouldn't be useful, if this conversation were about average users.

However, each point I responded to was either a flagrant all-encompassing statement ("Macbook Pros are the best laptops" or something like that), or statements that may have been made from the perspective of an average user or on their behalf, but were still incorrect ("Like what? I have yet to find something I can't do on my Mac." courtesy of you).

I don't dispute that in many ways, for an average user a Mac is very good - but that was never said here. Rather, the thread derailed into a bunch of unfounded, generalized, incorrect statements, as these always do.

fhqwgads2005

If you get Parallels, you can run Windows at the same time as MacOSX, in a separate window. Or, just have the Windows taskbar on you MacOSX desktop and run windows programs and Mac programs at the same time. It's so cool.

1of42

Parallels has performance issues when running resource-intensive Windows programs. Furthermore, it is currently in violation of the license on some of its core code, so I'd refuse to use it on principle.

bobmallet1

Get a windows... I hardly ever see any mac specific software in stores anymore (or a tiny amount compared to windows software), and even if you use emulators like bootcamp, that takes up a lot of memory and performance on the computer and you'll find your application running much slower than if it were on a windows machine...