Momwaitingfornew

First of all, racism *does* exist in this country - and globally. Personally, I'd rather be Asian in North America, than North American in Asia.

Next, I'm a white woman - just so we get that out of the way.

Third, all this complaining about being "hurt" because you're Asian fails to take in the entire picture. Do you think that highly-qualified whites don't get rejected? Do you think that URMs never get rejected? If so, you're wrong. You're promoting an ethnocentric view that doesn't take into account admissions as a whole. Yeah, Asians will be rejected with perfect scores, just as whites will be. Is it fair? Probably not, but there are limited spaces at the top universities. Not everyone can win a spot.

Next, first generation immigrants (Asian or otherwise) often have an incomplete understanding of how US universities work. Because other countries admit students solely on the basis of entrance scores, immigrant parents tend to emphasize this with their children. For them, scores and grades are everything - and getting into the "best" university means automatic success - because that's what they know. Unfortunately, that is not true in the US. We value individualism and innovation and initiative. If that comes across in your application, it can *overcome* not-perfect SAT scores and grades. If it doesn't, those scores and grades *lose* value. Because of the nature of our culture, that Harvard degree is worth a lot, but it certainly doesn't guarantee success. For example, some of the most famous entrepreneurs in this country have undergraduate degrees from places unheard of abroad - and sometimes even within the country. If you have great SAT scores, but go to Haverford instead of Harvard, or Lehigh instead of Yale, you are NOT at a disadvantage.

Fourth, women are at a distinct advantage right now in the college admissions process. Are there threads here crying discrimination against women? No. We understand that co-ed colleges cannot afford to be 70% female, which is what some admission officers are claiming schools would be if they ignored gender. Women make up 50% of the population and yet , at most schools, cannot be admitted at a rate greater than that.

Last, I wish everyone should stop talking about Asian stereotypes. Yes, some people will fit that stereotype, but it ignores the diversity of the population.

I find it ironic that (biased) white parents are saying that Asians are taking all the top slots at universities, and (biased) Asians are saying that whites are given preference. Has it occurred to anyone that that this is not a racial issue but instead one of too many qualified students applying to too few top spots?

loser

Everyone is unique!
You can't discrimanate Asians just because they do well on math/sciences. Anyone who views Asians with prejudice seems to take his life as a 'standard' one to compare with other. Is it different from saying the Black is 'colored'? what if people take black as a 'standard color'; thus White become 'colored'?
Btw, I'm an Asian and although I'm applying to colleges, I am proud of my ethnics

naidu90

I am Indian (guess I'm asian) and yes I am the stereotypical asian, but I hate it when colleges look down on you for it. I am proud of my origins but if other races can't do well its not our fault (i know that sounds racist). Asians aren't even that smart, they just work incredibly hard - if only everybody else did that, they wouldn't have to complain about asians being too smart (I am not saying that other people don't work hard, but those who don't work and expect to get into a good college can't complain)\

I am very sorry if I am being racist

Momwaitingfornew

Loser, it's not discrimination about Asians "just because they do well on math/sciences." Schools want to admit a selection of potential majors. If most Asians who apply (and I'm not saying this is true, because I don't know) have ECs, grades, and scores that point toward the sciences, then they immediately become competitive with themselves. Let's say that Princeton doesn't want to admit more than 100 future biochemistry majors, and yet 1000 Asians apply with demonstrated qualifications for the field. Let's say that 1000 whites also apply with the same credentials, but only two African-Americans and one Hispanic do. To create diversity in the department (and these school DO want diversity, one reason why Asians are now admitted at a higher rate than 20 years ago), both African-American candidates and the Hispanic are accepted. That leaves 97 spot to be divided between the whites and the Asians. Even forgetting about geographic diversity (which does give an advantage to whites since right now, Asian populations tend to cluster), and assuming even distribution between races, that means that 951 qualified Asians are going to be rejected.

Now let's look at the creative writing department. Again, 1000 whites, two African-Americans, one Hispanic, and two Asians apply with demonstrated talent in the field. Here, the department is smaller, so maybe Princeton expects to admit only 25. For diversity, all Asians, Hispanics, and African-Americans are accepted. That leaves 20 spots for whites.

In this scenario, which is highly hypothetical, 951 Asians were rejected, and 51 were accepted. Out of those 951, most were qualified for the sciences. Do you see how diversity of interests can play a part? Princeton doesn't want all science majors because it must maintain its stellar reputation in its other department.

(Note that just "declaring" a different major won't help. You need to have that demonstrated passion over the long haul of your high school career.)

fabrizio

I like how you word the second part of your statement. To me, it is much more neutral and fair than some of the other comments I've read. I definitely agree that it is impossible to accept all the qualified applicants simply because the class size can only be so large. That's fine.

I mainly have problems with those who openly stereotype Asians and go so far as to defend their use of stereotypes. Furthermore, several adcoms have admitted that there is a bias against Asians in the decisions process. Thus, I believe that the issue is partially influenced by race.

motorways

It's an interesting article, especially considering that Jeremy Lin was a key player on the state champion basketball team. I am of Asian descent, but do not consider myself to have any specific racial identity. (I was born in America, and my father is from Hong Kong, so I consider Great Britain to be part of my cultural identity.) I know white people who are probably more stereotypically Asian than me. I don't play badminton or piano/flute/violin, I can't speak Chinese, and I'm not even taking a science class this year. One of the colleges I'm applying to is only 1% Asian, and I know that makes me more likely to get in. As for more diverse colleges, I'm hoping that the interviews will help prove that I'm no "textureless math grind," especially considering that I'm planning on majoring in music business, media studies, or English.

proletariat2

I'm glad to see that you're not all just more textureless math grinds...

Just kidding, but to me (I'm Indian, by the way), most Indian people (East Asians and Middle Easterns don't as much) tend to fit a certain stereotype. Unfortunately, it's not the I-came-to-this-country-with-eight-dollars-in-my-pocket work ethic. It seems that most of the Indian people I know are moderately successful with math and science and bomb language arts and social studies, play the violin because their parents tell them to, and end up going to the cheapest school possible with an acceptable pre-med program. That describes about 50-60% of Indians at my school. Most of my Indian friends aren't like that, but that's because I choose to hang out with people who are more culturally literate in general.

naidu90

yup....................

spiffystars

I'm half Asian and half Hispanic (but I am way more into my Asian side and most of my friends call me "The Asian"...haha don't ask), and I absolutely DETEST all things math and science. I am a lover of words. I've already told my parents and everyone I meet that I REFUSE to become a doctor, lawyer, engineer, or any of the other typical vocations that overambitious Asian parents always want their kids to pursue.

I don't think that the person was entirely wrong in saying that most Asians are quiet and shy and math/science nerds because...well...they ARE? Unless you have some sort of freakish case, like me for instance. BUT, saying that that will keep those kids out of these top notch schools IS a bit depressing. Just my two cents.

OSUforME

The Asian population is represented by a much larger population at top universities than they are in the American general public. Quite frankly, Asians are only discriminated against (and I use that term very loosely) because they represent such a competitive demographic.

We all know that competitively demographics are

Asian -> white -> URM...
and thus admissions reflect that. Personally, I think it is important that students learn with culturally different individuals (but I believe that would be better reflected with a socioeconomic system).

happyjanezhang

and some research has indicated that asians have the highest incomes in america followed by whites, blacks, and with hispanic and native americans last, just wondering if this "asians are richer" thing is a factor in the large amounts of asian students at top US schools.

EeVeE25

As an Asian American, I greatly despise this stereotype. I'm terrible at anything math or science related, and instead love literature and dream of becoming a successful, working actress. I'm adopted. My white parents have never pushed me to become a doctor or lawyer or engineer. They're perfectly fine with me living out of a box after college, if theatre is the major I wish to pursue. I am outgoing and love to do a heck of alot more than bury myself in my studies. I'm a very hardworking and passionate student, but I certainly hope that no admissions committee places my application in a pile of quiet, shy, only-interested-in-math/science, or boring students. Regardless of our race or ethnicity, we should all be considered on an individual basis. I'm an idealist, I know. Sigh.

Azure326

When are we going to pass a law that will prevent college admissions people from knowing our race? I find it ridiculous that this information is available to them in the first place as I believe it has no place in an application to a state university (If it were a private univeristy or something centered on a certain race or religion or something, then that's kind of different, but I'm mainly concerned about UC's and what not). Refusing to answer isn't enough either, as it's usually VERY easy to pick out Asians just by their name (Especially when it comes to Indians, which I am...).

Seriously, people should start writing to their Congressmen about preventing these admissions people from knowing our race, sex, and other irrelevant information when it comes to admissions. Public universities shouldn't make their decision TO ANY DEGREE based on things like sex and race.

As I said earlier, I'm Indian and I fit the stereotype of focusing on science/math. I applied under Electrical Engineering and I'm shooting for Berkeley. However, I know that because of my profile and its "matching" major that it will be VERY hard to get in. What bothers me is that I know that if I were Native American or something I'd have better chances of getting in...

This issue has been around for SO long and nearly everybody knows about it. What have colleges/admissions people said about it? Has it ever been taken to the courts or anything?

futurenyustudent

It didn't affect me...I just got into my dream school yay

Joycelene

Labeling's for soup cans. We should stage a protest!! Woo hoo!! I always say that rofl XDDDDD

I don't know. I'm an odd Asian, I guess. I'm a dumb Asian for one (well, dumb in context w/ my Asianness... only a 29 ACT, 1900 SAT yuck and 3.5 UW GPA. Granted that's all going up this week and the next w/ finals and both SAT and ACT scores hopefully coming out...) and I suck royally at math and science. Like. Wow suck. Like I'm currently getting an 80 in Hon Precalc AB (not even in CALCULUS! *G*) and I've written a couple vignettes and started my very first play while not paying attention in REGULAR PHYSICS b/c I got a C first semester in Honors Chemistry. (I'm inept. I know. You needn't remind me; I tell myself that fact often enough.) I'm fairly adept at English, I'm guessing, since I'm pretty much one of the only people at my school to get a 5 on the AP Lang test, somehow qualified for the Nat. Vocab. Championship regionals, and I read an ungodly amount. I'd be happy w/ a 600+ Math this time around (pathetic compared to everyone else, I know) but I'd really like a 750-800 CR. I want to be an investigative journalist, being paid to be nosy as I like to. I'm probably going to be a creative writing and political science double major in college if the school I end up going to doesn't offer journalism. (I figure I can go to j-school in grad school for that.) I also want to be a politician *dies* XDDD I'm also chatty and loud to the point of being obnoxious. And I'm vulgar. Holy ****nuts, am I vulgar *dies* I quit piano when I was 9 and haven't touched my flute in years. I like choir, though; I sang for 7-8 years.

But you know what I hate? I hate the fact that being who I am will definitely help me out in college admissions. I hate the fact that working AGAINST the Asian stereotype will help even when it shouldn't. Because I'm DEFINITELY not as qualified as the other Asian who has 1329804 ECs, 2300+ SAT, 34 ACT, 3.9 UW GPA, science career bound and all that jazz but I'm different. I'm unique. I might have an equal chance, maybe even have a better chance and even though that's good for me, that's really just not fair.

Working against the stereotype doesn't help, it just reinforces it. By saying that "I'm not like those other Asians; I'm like this and I do this and I'm crap at this" sort of reinforces the stereotype not only for them but for yourself, too. Just working against it isn't going to help. It's like how I always laugh when people say they're nonconformist b/c they don't follow the path as those darn conformists. Don't they realize that by following the OPPOSING path they're letting the fact it's the alternative path control them? That they're letting themselves, ironically, be dictated by the opposite of what's cool and inevitably just as bad as the people who they are rejecting?

I don't know. I don't really offer any solutions, to be honest. Just to be yourself, I guess. So what if you like science? You can like science and still hate to play the piano. You can still love to play the violin but bomb the SATs with a 1400/2400. You can fit the stereotype, you can be the antithesis of the stereotype, or you can be a bit of each. And if you do something for the RIGHT reasons, not because the parentals are forcing you (*shakes fist*), it'll work out. Because you are who you are and didn't choose to be someone you're not. If Harvard doesn't want YOU, not the silly Asian stereotype, then screw them. You can do better.

I guess that really didn't help... oh well. I'm the ranty sort XD Unbearably loquacious *sigh* Hope that didn't come out as preachy as I think it ended up being...