do cults generally attract people of higher intelligence?? - Page 2

olgita · 07-08-2008, 02:03 PM

So we shouldn't even be having this discussion.

proletariat2 · 07-08-2008, 02:12 PM

The government has some handy cult checklists.

I think it's quite clear that Scientology is a cult. It's centered around one person, tries to pre-emptively destroy opposition, requires payment to move up spiritually, and is founded on ideas in science fiction books written before the cult was founded. This is all extremely suspicious.

hookem168 · 07-08-2008, 02:14 PM

Right, I think the payment thing is by far the biggest *CULT* warning sign. Real religions require devotion and discipline, not handouts. Yes, Christianity, for example, asks you to tithe, but it doesn't "increase" based on your "spirituality level." It's just a sign of sacrifice.

romanigypsyeyes · 07-08-2008, 02:16 PM

^ Ah, but they used to. Your sins used to be forgiven based on *donations* to the church. So was Christianity a cult? If so, when did it cease being a cult?

olgita · 07-08-2008, 02:17 PM

"It's centered around one person, tries to pre-emptively destroy opposition"

This applies most most major religions

"requires payment to move up spiritually"

Maybe they use this payment for the good of society? In that case, it qualifies as a donation, which isn't that much different from the Catholic "good works" requirement.

"founded on ideas in science fiction books"

And religions are founded on ideas in the Bible, Koran, Torah, etc.

I'm not trying to defend or justify scientology. In fact, I find their practices supremely disgusting, but you should not call the entire belief system a "cult" just because it hasn't been around for thousands of years.

hookem168 · 07-08-2008, 02:21 PM

Right. The Catholic Church was corrupt, and was basically becoming a cult. I admit it. But I'm not Catholic

I'm a protestant, which means I follow in the tradition of Martin Luther and John Calvin, men who stood up to the pope and said "Um no. Read the Bible, stupid." lmao

romanigypsyeyes · 07-08-2008, 02:24 PM

^ But do you still consider the Catholic church a cult? Of course not.

Then again, taken out of context, would you consider "drinking the blood" and "eating the flesh" cult-like? Of course. And yes, some sects of Christianity believe that the wine and bread LITERALLY BECOME the blood and flesh.

hookem168 · 07-08-2008, 02:25 PM

Right. Once again, a Catholic belief, of which I'm not a member.
And yes, I do still believe that the Catholic Church has tons of huge problems.

romanigypsyeyes · 07-08-2008, 02:29 PM

^ Many other than Catholics believe in transubstantiation.

But my point is, what is cult-like to one person is faith to another. Where do you draw the line between cult and religion? You can't. Therefore this entire discussion is bogus lol.

hookem168 · 07-08-2008, 02:32 PM

Have you seen the movie "Bubble Boy?" Tell me the Bright and Shinies are a religion instead of a cult and I will throttle you haha. Sometimes you can just plain tell.

romanigypsyeyes · 07-08-2008, 02:37 PM

I've never seen Bubble Boy. Lol. (Ok, I did once. But I was too "gone" to remember it.)

But like I said, one person's cult is another's religion. And again, people will argue that Wicca is a cult, which obviously it is not. It's all a matter of perception.

proletariat2 · 07-08-2008, 02:50 PM

I think the idea that a cult is a religion is postmodernism taken too far. The boundaries may be blurred a little, but does anyone truly believe L. Ron Hubbard or the Rev. Jim Jones headed legitimate religions? I realize that it's not the amount of time that it has existed that is the main difference, why is why I consider Baha'i a religion. While Christianity and other religions may have been similar in the past, the characteristics shared with cults were not part of these religions, but rather a corruption of them.

Quote:

This applies most most major religions

What other religion has a Fair Game policy?

Quote:

Maybe they use this payment for the good of society? In that case, it qualifies as a donation, which isn't that much different from the Catholic "good works" requirement.

No, they don't use it for society, so it's not like tithing or the "good works" reuqirement. Even Catholic "indulgences" were designed for relatives, and were not required to move up spiritually. I admit that they were corrupt, but not in the same way.

Quote:

And religions are founded on ideas in the Bible, Koran, Torah, etc.

Although many (including) may believe the ideas in those books are incorrect, they are not patently absurd. Furthermore, those books were written after the founding of their religion, and their purpose was never to make money.

proletariat2 · 07-08-2008, 02:54 PM

Useful references from Wikipedia:

Cult checklist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cult - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually, now that I think about it, it may be true that all cults are religions but that not all religions are cults. This makes more sense than considering them mutually exclusive, since all cults have religious aspects.

To the person below - are you referring to me?

hookem168 · 07-08-2008, 02:54 PM

Thank you, Mr. Leon Trotsky, sir

Moodrets · 07-08-2008, 03:57 PM

A cult is commonly defined as a fringe religion, one that has not yet become accepted in the mainstream (upon the acceptance of which one needs to give a non-ostensive definition of religion). Either way, what does it matter if cults are considered religions or not? It seems like a pointless squabble over semantics to me, and when one finally maneuvers through all the various word games and creates a coherent vocabulary, the veracity of the various belief systems remains the same -- whatever you considerations are regarding certain groups, the groups care not, and the respective arguments that said groups present are no more and no less valid.