theslowclap

That's a very interesting point you make. I'd still consider murdering Hitler murder nonetheless. Simply because I prevented his murders would not take away from the fact that I murdered someone because Hitler was the one doing the murdering and not me. In no way does it mean that if I don't murder Hitler that I am murdering the millions that he intends on murdering. But the reason I hold Hitler responsible for the murders is because his will made the conscious choice to have people killed even though it wasn't his own hands that did the killing. That's my 2 cents. Don't know if you guys will agree.

I do like how consistent you are in your logic. For me, however, I seem to disagree perhaps because one of our underlying assumptions are different. I don't want to put words in your mouth so I'd like you to explain to me a couple things:
1. Do you see human life as valuable?
2. Is a death without human intervention the same thing as a death due to human intervention?

Please explain to me what a secular humanist believes in. I’m not too familiar with what it is.

HADC10

You could have prevented the deaths caused by Hitler not by killing him, but by finding some other means of arresting his rise to power or avoiding his atrocities. You create a false dichotomy of "Hitler dies, or 6M people die." There are numerous alternatives to this situation.

Gordon_Gekko

1. No. Being valuable implies assigning value, and I'm not sure how you could set a value to your life.
2. Well, the result is the same isn't it?

Well, secular humanism isn't strictly defined but the general idea is to better humanity through science and reason.

I'm really the combination of an Atheist and Buddhist. A couple things I believe in are anatta, determinism, hedonism. If you haven't heard of them, check them out on Wikipedia, particularly determinism.

I actually have a theory (which I'm sure someone has thought of before me) that is kind of like an afterlife. The premise is that the universe expands and contracts in one grand cycle that takes an unfathomnable number of years. The universe contracts, then explodes out again setting forth a chain of events. Now, the explosion could be the same every time or it could be different, I'm not sure, but even if it is different there are only so many combinations that can be made before one repeats... So in theory, every event that ever happens has happened before and will happen again an infinite number of times. When you die, maybe a trillion years would pass but you wouldn't know it. The second you loose consciousness you'd regain consciousness 1T yrs later in your mothers womb... I'm no astrophysists though so there is probably something wrong about this idea but it's fascinating for now.

HADC10

Gordon, you bring up what is known Big Bounce cosmology. It is by no means certain, but it is a serious hypothesis about the universe and the origins of the Big Bang. I wonder how your view of determinism fits with quantum mechanics.

theslowclap

Gordon: That's very interesting. With those assumptions, I can definitely see how your logic would work. I may not agree with it but it's fascinating nonetheless.

baller4lyfe

They say that the koran fully explains the scientific nature of the universe. hmm.