3togo

As a grad of two schools this applies to (one IVY - one not) I totally DISAGREE. The only way to serious upgrade atheltics at the IVYies (or lots of top DIII LACs) would be to offer athletic scholarships ... and the day the IVYies do that is the day that they sell their soul! Proud IVY grad who is also very much in agreement with not giving merit scholarships either ... I LOVE the fact the financial aid budget is allocated totally to help those with financial need.

Old78

Who among us did not have a wonderful time watching Davidson College plow through the major programs in the NCAA basketball tournament two years ago? Okay, those among us who cheer for Gonzaga, Georgetown and Wisconsin, but still....

Another great aspect of DC b-ball is the lack of an "academic ghetto" as it is called at many other reputable schools---that is a description for the program where the school is in a "consortium" that includes the local regional state U. nearby the selective, and they all have an agreement to allow students to take classes over at Directional State U that will count at Halls of Near Ivy, just like a regular course. Davidson students, meanwhile, because of the 1400 on campus enrollment, have nowhere to hide the athletes. So when you watched Steph Curry light it up, you were seeing a guy who was studying during the trip to the game, and during the trip home after the game.

Too bad they didn't make it to the Championship, because a showdown between Memphis and Davidson would have had some kind of cosmic consequences.

hoedown

I don't see what the Ivies have to gain by joining the arms race of bigtime Division I sports.

I think they've achieved a good balance now. Lots of sports available; competitive in their league, especially in some of the more "elite" sports like rowing, lacrosse, etc; few pesky questions about different admissions standards; little worry about the conflicts between being a scholar and an athlete.

Pizzagirl

Hey, as an NU alum, my only "objection" to NU leaving the Big 10 would be the loss of TV revenue I assume it enjoys. I think if NU had never been in the Big 10, its look and feel would be very much like the Ivies in terms of type of student body it attracts and level of academics. So some students might decide not to apply. So what? There's no shortage of talent applying to any of the schools we're talking about. A potential good student not applying to Northwestern if it didn't offer Big 10 athletics is about as much of a "tragedy" as a potential good student not applying to Harvard because he doesn't like cold weather -- which is to say, not a tragedy at all.

And I don't really know how far (if at all) NU has had to dip to ensure competitive football / basketball teams -- but I gotta tell you, as an alum, it's certainly not a source of "pride" if they've done so. I can sort of close my eyes to a little dipping here and there and feel that the university overall isn't compromised, but all the Rose-Bowl-and-Final-Four-winning in the world isn't worth any serious compromise to get athletes.

An interesting observation.

ring_of_fire

Pizzagirl, are you really proud of Northwestern? It isn't really phenominal academically or athletically. It loses out on the majority of cross admits to places like Penn, Duke and Stanford. Furthermore, its football and basketball teams are the joke of the Big 10. Also, none of its academic programs are top-notch besides theater. I don't see why you're being so arrogant. It has much to gain and little to lose by improving its athletic tradition. Only then will it be able to steal away kids from the top schools.

NU is now even playing second fiddle to UChicago. At least the latter is excelling academically. Northwestern is currently doing neither.

UCBChemEGrad

^

Northwestern football bowl record:
1949 Rose Bowl California W, 20-14
1996 Rose Bowl USC L, 32-41
1997 Citrus Bowl Tennessee L, 28-48
2000 Alamo Bowl Nebraska L, 17-66
2003 Motor City Bowl Bowling Green L, 24-28
2005 Sun Bowl UCLA L, 38-50
2008 Alamo Bowl Missouri L, 23-30 (OT)

Duke football bowl record:
1938 Rose Southern California L 3-7
1941 Rose Oregon State L 16-20
1944 Sugar Alabama W 29-26
1954 Orange Nebraska W 34-7
1957 Orange Oklahoma L 21-48
1960 Cotton Arkansas W 7-6
1989 All American Texas Tech L 21-49
1994 Hall Of Fame Wisconsin L 20-34

Northwestern football has recently been more "relevant" than Duke football.

What academic programs at Duke are "top-notch" besides biomedical engineering? At least NU offers a full engineering program, unlike Duke.

midatlmom

ring of fire

I'm not sure who you are or what your background is, but I can assure you that among people who live on the east coast, Northwestern has an excellent reputation as a fine academic school with good sports, an enthusiastic and intelligent student body and a vibrant campus life. It has excellent programs in communications, theater, anthropology, physics, applied math, economics and a host of other areas. It might not win the cross-admit battle with penn, duke or stanford, but I fail to see how that matters much.

Pizzagirl

@@ You're the person who said that SMU was as good as Vanderbilt and Duke in another thread, so there goes your credibility.
I chose it over Penn, btw. Who wins cross-admit battles is of little consequence, however, because what matters is what *I prefer, not the sum of what *other people prefer. I'm not in sixth grade anymore, so I don't make my decisions based on what other people think.

B Man 22

I think Northwestern has a pretty good girls' lax progra. They did beat Penn, this year, I believe.

Cuse0507

When has Duke football ever been relevant? Duke is the perennial ACC bottom-feeder when it comes to football.

applicannot

Frankly, I hope college athletics become irrelevant to pretty much everyone.

MomofWildChild

^^ That's not going to happen. I am a big college sports fan, but the fact that my son's college (Ivy) doesn't have particularly competitive major sports teams hasn't been a huge problem for him. He still follows college sports and actually is more interested in the powerhouses than in anything that happens in the Ivy League anyway. Daughter has pride in Rice, her alma mater, and follows the baseball results. She is, however, really enjoying SEC sports at Vanderbilt, where she goes to graduate school. It doesn't particularly matter, actually, whether Vandy goes to the NCAA or makes a bowl game. The competition is still intense and the games are lots of fun. I think a lot depends on what conference you are in and whether the school is serious about athletics more than whether they achieve success year after year.

Corbett

Even the Ivies "dip" a bit here and there for talented athletes. But NU "dips" even lower. For example, the NCAA sponsors "Public Recognition Awards" for the Division I teams with the highest academic performances. For 2008-09, the award count broke down as follows:

28 Yale
21 Dartmouth
21 Brown
19 Penn
18 Harvard
18 Princeton
10 Columbia
9 Cornell
-----
5 NU

The five recognized NU teams were M tennis, M wrestling, M soccer, W golf, and W volleyball, none of which are particularly high-profile. It seems fair to suggest that NU academic standards are in fact compromised, at least relative to those at Ivy League schools.

coureur

>>Frankly, I hope college athletics become irrelevant to pretty much everyone.<<

I don't. That would be just as bad as insisting the Ivy League go big time. There needs to be a choice available, and thankfully there currrently is. For those who want big time college sports there is the Big Ten, Pac Ten, and others. For those who prefer a more balanced and low-key approach, there is the Ivy league, the Patriot League, and Div. III. Something for everybody.

So I'm all for Big Sports for schools and conferences that want it. But I unlike the OP I don't favor it for those schools that don't.

MomofWildChild

^^ SEC rules!