Morsmordre

I blame the college admissions game that puts such an emphasis on these factors. Seriously, to have a good shot at a top school you have to be the President of "something"! So, no I don't blame the kids who would normally rather not do this kind of stuff.

pageturner

Really? Where did you get this information?

TheAscendancy

I agree with Morsmordre to the extent that it really is the fault of the admissions process. Instead of using EC's to distinguish their applicants, they could simply make standardized tests more difficult or keep the emphasis on rigorous academics.

I will admit to being one who has participated in certain ECs simply for college. That being said, while I joined most of my clubs out of the belief that they'll keep me competitive, I ended up enjoying the activities/competitions, meeting new people, and learning about the area of study. The same applies to my internships, volunteer work, independent research etc. So to that end, though I may have started my ECs for colleges, I feel like I still gained a lot from them.

pageturner

Do you think the HYP etc. colleges will look at an applicant and say "Great SATs, great GPA, wonderful essays, fabulous recommendations, but, no, we can't accept him. He wasn't the president of a club." ?

Admissions staff read thousands of applications, and test scores only play a part in admissions. Clubs and other ECs can show a well-rounded student, but it's quality, not quantity.

I've heard them state time and time again on visits and interviews that they would rather see a student fully committed to a few clubs or activities than have a laundry list. The admissions guys can see through this, you know. Essays and recommendations will show commitment.

Morsmordre

I didn't say anything about a laundry list. Also, I would not believe most of what the admissions officers say since they tend to speak in lawyerese if you ask them the real pressing questions. As for the information, it's been a joke amongst some of my friends whenever talking about the admissions process about how important it is to be the President of xyz and I think without exception of all of my peers that got into top schools in hs held a Presidential/highly influential leadership role in clubs. But, if you don't fully trust my anecdotes, you can look at the decision threads. I didn't think that this was actually disputed information.

Though obviously, yes you can get into top schools without being a President of something but you can also get in without having a SAT score over 2000, or ranking in the top 15% of your class. But would I take take those odds? The answer is a resounding "No".

belly

But in the least why should we care?

toadstool

So long as colleges say that "leadership" is a qualifying criteria, you will have clubs formed specifically to create leadership roles.

Remember Willy Wonka and the "blueberry" family. Their focus was on winning and keeping "than eye on the prize." College admissions are a blueberry world. And that's just the way it is.

pageturner

It's not that I don't believe the anecdotes, but I think they can be interpreted in different ways. Overachievers/high grades/great test scores/club presidents; one usually follows the other, but they don't need to.

Hey, look, I accidentally came onto your cafe, thinking I was in the Admissions forum. I'm a parent of a graduated high school senior, and I'm a high school teacher of high achieving students. I am also the school advisor of one of our honor societies. With these students, I go on college visits as field trips, attend college fairs, and sit in with department heads for group discussions regarding admissions and their majors. Because of this program, I have personally talked with countless admissions representatives.

I understand your impression of club president= needed for admission into top schools. That's what you will see here on CC, because the kids who report here are overachievers.

I'm not trying to tell you that you're wrong. I'm trying to say is that there are many ways of getting to your goal. Many of my students kids get into Ivy League schools and other top tier 1 schools; my own son included. Some do follow the formula, because that's the kind of students they are. However, many are top students in other ways. As for my son, believe me, he was never president of anything. He was just generally well-rounded, and then he focused on his specific interests. He's certainly not an anomaly in this situation.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to be club president if that's what you want to do. I'm saying that you don't need to be. I'm saying admissions people are looking for passion in your interests. If you feel that you need to follow the formula, that's perfectly fine. Remember, though, that the competition for the top schools is beyond fierce. You need to find a way to stand out from the other applicants. Exclusively following the formula won't separate you from the masses.

pageturner

Toadstool, "leadership" can mean many things. Think outside of the box.

bob64

There's a bunch of kids at my school who "volunteer" up to 20-30 hours a week at a hospital. Really all they do is sit there and chat with each other or sit there and read books.

pageturner

Yes, there are those kids. It is their loss for not getting something out of their volunteering. Maybe they're not as smart as they think they are.