WuTangForeva

correction: unemployment stands at 9.8% not 9.5%

Clearly a price floor in the labour market has nothing to do with it amirite

Vehicle

So you're basically saying if someone does not want to accept lower wages than they are out of a job because they cannot compete with those that accept these wages? Slave labor in a more modernistic term, does not always refer to actual act of slavery but the act of taking advantage of cheap labor. Most people do not have a choice to stay home or a choice to look for jobs with higher pay thus pushing them into employment that does not fit their needs. I'd call that slavery.

So are you also incriminating yourself in saying that your productivity is low because you are willing to accept below minimum wage? Everyone strives to work to a decent position and it can start at a minimum wage. If there is no wage regulations than those that get better positions will STILL be undercut due to the influx of opportunity. It's not impossible to get a job and work up in the world. Businesses don't NEED that many employees even if they could get them cheap. There is a shortage of jobs simply because work isn't necessarily needed.

This is absolutely hilarious that you assume I'm some rich kid with parents made of money because I've pointed out what an ignorant kid you are. My parents are in no way rich, in fact, their income skims the poverty line. The difference between you and me is that I actually worked to get up in the world. I make quadruple what my parents make and well enough to support myself and a family if I choose. I certainly didn't get that way by accepting mediocre jobs and vouching for less wages. Hell, my wages are higher than other individuals in my field because I feel that I deserve more.

I make enough to pay for my college tuition IN FULL in less than two months. All on my own independence. For the reference.

Hmm, here's an idea, why don't you get a job that doesn't have hourly if you're so upset about earning as much as your lazy coworkers. I'm self employed for that reason.

Oh man, China would love you kid

iamsounsure

I'm actually in favour of raising minimum wage.

WuTangForeva

We have something called the internet, which changes the traditional market dynamic considerably (you know, after factoring unions and all that).

I'm glad you're entrepreneurially talented. Nevertheless, your understanding of basic macroeconomics is lacking.

My productivity w/regard to that position, yes. If I am not beneficial enough to the firm to be worth that much, then I aim lower. Now actually my wage is quite higher (I was looking for a summer job) -- and herein lies the catch: with regards to summer employment, productivity is lower because I'd be leaving in a short period, so naturally any human capital gained on the job would be worth less to them.

Now some firms are quite unreasonable and other firms would be willing to pick up productive workers other firms have rejected -- it is called competition.

I thought of running my own (food) business, since I am quite a good cook, but I don't have transport and don't have a market. I must be more secure first before I start making investments.

Do you know what money is? Money is money. It is not a good or service. If total economic output decreases to support a minimum wage, everyone is poorer off and your higher wages won't have made a difference. Money simply is a mechanism to communicate information about allocation and efficiency.

It's often impossible with a minimum wage. Businesses will simply not hire workers who are less productive than minimum wage -- they will incur a loss with those workers, even if they need labour that would increase their output or standard of service.

Also, I don't know what you ever got in your economics classes but human labour is always useful -- there is never a shortage of labour resources, but always a scarcity. What prevents firms from hiring more labour? Labour costs. With lowered marginal labour costs, firms can expand output, get more machines, hell, for the time being use them to peddle goods on the roadside (if say, labour were cheap). However, the cost of labour generally prevents them from using labour inefficiently.

Please, address the fact that:
Total wages paid goes up
Deadweight loss is eliminated
Economic output is increased and therefore real wealth is increased (prices fall; consumers have more purchasing power)
Differential pay scales can be implemented, improving productivity further

Oh, what school do you go to by the way? I made my entire EFC in the last month, too.

WuTangForeva

Why do you think that would actually increase the buying power of the poor?

Do you support rent controls as well?

I know, you support protectionism, right?

iamsounsure

I think a higher minimum wage will increase the quality of life of poor people. That's it.

Depends.

I wouldn't say I support protectionism. I am against what most people tout as the "free market". What having a free market does is allouw power and wealth to be consolidated into the the already wealthy and powerful. You need to have strict government enforced regulation on business.

WuTangForeva

How would it increase the quality of life of poor people if it prevents them from improving their productivity, gaining skills, raises the price levels of goods and services, and hurts economic output?

Explain.

I'm familiar with this perspective, but I often find it analytically unsophisticated.

(Bear in mind I used to be a Marxist-Leninist in my younger days.)

I'm not against taxes, but if the top marginal tax rate gets increased above 25% you start to hurt economic output more than any benefit derived from the services funded. This was Andrew Mellon's taxation guideline, and the economy prospered under him -- until an ignorant president reversed his policies and helped usher in the Depression. Remember, Andrew Mellon slashed the tax rates of the working class by even more, and yet tax revenue increased rather than decreased a year afterwards, enough to overcome a major budget deficit.



Would you like to run a business under this environment, where the government dictated everything you could do? You see, business is business. There are so many opportunities for "business" that would be stifled. I bet Vehicle would agree, since he is clearly an entrepreneur. If you had an ingenious business model but found yourself blocked at every way by government regulation, I'm sure you'd think otherwise.

And no one would benefit from the economic output that would otherwise occur.

Poor people are remarkably diverse. There are lazy poor people. There are hardworking poor people. The minimum wage hurts the hardworking poor people in favor of the lazy poor people. Why not use an incentive-based welfare system instead?